Opinions please on large Beech

[skyhuck]

You must surely be joking or completely deluded. To equate people discussing on this board whether a tree could be saved or not as fascists is highly indicative of you.

 

I did no such thing, I said what I wasn't, not what other were

[Treeworld]

My location is more towards Canterbury however do get around Sevenoaks and Tunbridge Wells. I am no fungal expert and would always get a consultant in to assess things above my knowledge base. I go with my feeling and experience and with regards to this beech I still feel it would not take such a large reduction. I refused to quote to re pollard a seemingly healthy Mature Holm Oak for my Sister who shares a property in a converted manor as it had some signs of decay from the initial pollard. I would have gladly priced to remove it, the residents decided to get other opinions and had it pollarded only for me to get a request 18 months later to come and remove the now dead tree. If I was the initial tree Surgeon I would have felt obliged to remove it for free as advice was wrong. I did so for my sister in return for all the wood which has kept me warm all winter. The point being at times can we really hand on heart truly say what will happen?

[mrtree]

I did no such thing, I said what I wasn't, not what other were

 

Your language, grammer and logic skills are truly something to behold.

[skyhuck]

Your language, grammer and logic skills are truly something to behold.

 

Why thank you

[Tom D]

While I agree that from the pics Stevies tree wasn't that bad, it was not taken down, I beleive, on his advice. The client had decided to remove it before he got there. Had I been asked to remove that tree I would have told the client honestly what my assesment of its condition was. If that was enough to change their minds I would have happily reduced it, I would not however, have spent ages trying to persuade them to go against their original wishes only for them to get someone else in to fell it.

 

For the record I correctly predicted the state of the interior of that tree from stevies pics and my advice would have also been thinning / reduction, however given its costal location on the west coast of scotland, an area renowned for its high winds it would be a close call.

I also feel that due to the lack of dormant buds beeches don't lend themselves to heavy "veteran" style pruning as well as many other species do. This should also be considered when prescribing this sort of work as in an auxin depleted specimen, which a tree of this age and size would definately be, (yes I understand auxin levels could have been a lot lower)

 

Lumbering a client with a financial millstone may be a real issue here; how is the client to know how the tree is performing post reduction? they have no option but to get professional advice, which costs money.

Let us then suppose that the tree does not perform well, its costal location could contribute to this, and further work is necessary, more expense.

Then let us suppose that another tree surgeon sees the tree in a few years time and is told by the client that Steven Blair recommended its retention 5 years ago, he advises the client that the tree is in decline and needs to be felled, how does that make Stevie look then? not looking very good for future work in a small island community where everyone knows everyone.

 

In short all these cases are subjective and in many ways either decision could have been the right one.

[sean]

While I agree that from the pics Stevies tree wasn't that bad, it was not taken down, I beleive, on his advice. The client had decided to remove it before he got there. Had I been asked to remove that tree I would have told the client honestly what my assesment of its condition was. If that was enough to change their minds I would have happily reduced it, I would not however, have spent ages trying to persuade them to go against their original wishes only for them to get someone else in to fell it.

 

For the record I correctly predicted the state of the interior of that tree from stevies pics and my advice would have also been thinning / reduction, however given its costal location on the west coast of scotland, an area renowned for its high winds it would be a close call.

I also feel that due to the lack of dormant buds beeches don't lend themselves to heavy "veteran" style pruning as well as many other species do. This should also be considered when prescribing this sort of work as in an auxin depleted specimen, which a tree of this age and size would definately be, (yes I understand auxin levels could have been a lot lower)

 

Lumbering a client with a financial millstone may be a real issue here; how is the client to know how the tree is performing post reduction? they have no option but to get professional advice, which costs money.

Let us then suppose that the tree does not perform well, its costal location could contribute to this, and further work is necessary, more expense.

Then let us suppose that another tree surgeon sees the tree in a few years time and is told by the client that Steven Blair recommended its retention 5 years ago, he advises the client that the tree is in decline and needs to be felled, how does that make Stevie look then? not looking very good for future work in a small island community where everyone knows everyone.

 

In short all these cases are subjective and in many ways either decision could have been the right one.

 

 

well said.....as much i am in favour of retention this is a well thought out and concise post.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

 

In short all these cases are subjective and in many ways either decision could have been the right one.

 

I said in the beginning that he case on both sides could be equally argued.

 

I think the right thing was done for THIS client, in THIS scenario, but i will not have it described as a liability without that BS being adressed:sneaky2:

 

nor will I let a tree of this caliber be eradicated without some discussion, and wanting to understand why no remorse was felt in iether the community or the tree man in this case my good mate shrek.

[mrtree]

I don't think we are talking about decisions but rather possibilites for the tree. Nobody to my knowledge ever tried to influence the client we are simply discussing what could have been done with the tree and a little about VTA, risk assessment etc.

 

While many have taken offense that some people have read, learnt and thought about trees and they use an actual method for tree assessment, others have at least been informed that Mattheck's VTA, Tree Statics group SIA and SIM, and SHigo's CODIT are available to read and learn from.

 

Clearly Stephen did what the owner wanted. Not what anybody else wanted or suggested. The decision was made without any input from this forum.

[Stephen Blair]

To the guys against the felling of the tree, you know the tree through pictures and i think you under setimate the customer.

They have lived with this tree for 42 years, their kids have played in it, their grand kids have played around it. This was not a knee jerk reaction on a sunday afternoon over drinks.

On stormy nights they could not sleep due to the noise from the tree, they have witnessed branches dropping from it all around their property over the years, as they said when they were younger busy with life they just accepted it was there as they have grown older and retired and spent so much time in their gardens and houses the shear size and intimidation of the tree worried them.

These homeowners did not pay for the trees felling, they paid for peace of mind. A reduction would not have given this.

 

For the record, i think the tree was dangerous to the 2 homeowners and was better of felled. I stand by their decision and mine. As far as remorse, why? I will cut down a 10 foot regen sycamore the same as i would a 1000 year old yew. I also think an ant is worth the same as an elephant or a dolphin.

Edited March 5, 2011 by Stephen Blair

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

This has been one of the most provocative threads for some time, it has been a worthy subject of discussion, and many have learnt from it, myself included.

 

some will always be upset when they get a strong response to what they are saying, but we should not be taking it all so personally, its just a discussion about options.

 

much awareness has been raised, and I do not doubt that many have gone away and bought books, or borrowed them because of this thread, and some will think a little more about what is reasonable in future.

 

I will add, i bet that was the T...ts to drop out in lumps!

Edited March 5, 2011 by Tony Croft aka hamadryad