vehicle winching directional felling

[b101uk]

The winch should be the weakest point but that will only be the case if the vehicle its mounted to is held in position, also you should have the maximum amount of rope paid out to maximise your pull and also so the winch doesn’t go on to the next rope layer until the tree has gone over centre.

 

e.g. my old FW525 winch with the PTO set at 85lbf would drag my land rover & my u1600 across grass unless all the wheel on the mog and land rover were chocked and even then it would slide a bit until the chocks bedded in.

 

The WF winches on the front of mogs will easily pull a mog across tarmac with all the wheel locked or over wheel chocks, the same is true of most land rover winches in that they will pull the LR over chocks, so fix it to other trees or to a vehicle that is at least 50% heaver than the winch can pull with all its wheels locked/chocked

Edited November 16, 2010 by b101uk

[Charlieh]

so fix it to other trees or to a vehicle that is at least 50% heaver than the winch can pull with all its wheels locked/chocked

i though fixing the winch vehicle to another item eg tree to stop it sliding was a no no from other winching threads on here something to do with damage to the vehicle if to much pull is used eg double line

[skyhuck]

chalks away mate, i think Big Andy made some last year, they were mint:thumbup1:

 

I think that was Bob mate, but I could be wrong

[educated arborist]

not a good idea to fix the oposite end of the veihcle to an anchor as you may rip the truck apart, but you can anchor the winch / winch bumper (design permiting). To start talking about weakest links & stalling strains you must first understand that a 9000lb pull rating is not the same as a 9000lb lift rating. pull ratings are based on pulling a wheeled veihcle up a set incline with a set resistance to simulate mud. Replace your steel cable with a synthetic one it wont cut you in half if it breaks, it weighs less & feys wont slice your hand open.

[Charlieh]

hmm im not sure about the synthetic rope if im using it for skidding bits of timber about on river banks etc over stones, in mud and through the water surely the steel is better? if it was just for the application of felling then fine, but I have been warned off synthetic rope on this forum due to the other tasks the winch has to undertake

[b101uk]

i though fixing the winch vehicle to another item eg tree to stop it sliding was a no no from other winching threads on here something to do with damage to the vehicle if to much pull is used eg double line

 

If you don’t fix it to something how do you expect e.g. 2t of land rover to stay still? Chocks are better for level or down #1 hill pulls but they are not to hot on pulls angled upward #1 (#1 note the maximum working angle of your fairlead) or soft ground and if you want to do it without fixing the vehicle to something then you need multiple anchor points with multiple snatch blocks and a very long winch rope or an extension rope to multiply the affects of e.g. 2t #2 of land rover threw the system as that is the limiting factor rather than the winch pull rating, but if you have got you calcs wrong a few hundred kg’s your e.g. land rover will be dragged to the first snatch block and all the time as the tree is falling backwards it is becoming heavier and building momentum so will snap ropes as soon as anything else in the system comes to a sudden stop.

 

#2 A 2t land rover on wet grass is only going to generate ~35% of its mass as adhesion via locked wheels so it is only going to be effectively 700kg without any upward pull reducing that further, chocks will improve on that BUT irrespective of that any surface including dry tarmac with chocks the adhesion generated will ALWAYS be less than the mass unless there is a ground anchor in play or fixing to stop any movement.

 

If your worried about putting stresses on your vehicle then attach strops etc to the winch bumper and run them between the inside of the wheels and the chassis so the come out of the back with a spreader to stop them being pulled together at the rear of the chassis then fix them to something.

 

After all what kind of “vehicle winching directional felling” are we talking about hear, I.e. pulling big trees over into a field on the edge of a wood where if it dose go backwards its only a fence or another tree of little value being flattened or pulling a vertical tree that would otherwise just sit there and would need wedges or a jack etc or are we talking homes on 3 sides and pulling it into a narrow space when its leaning back 10deg and you have left a thick hinge for lateral stability?

[Charlieh]

for the most part small to medium trees on river banks, smaller ones with a back lean, medium ones to add a degree of certainty, I should add im not always the person felling on several of the sites i work on, and well some peoples felling is erm well you get the idea also in many cases its narrow spaces felling up a bank where you cant get the vehicle directly in-front of the tree, so a redirect up an access path is required. (I will get some pics when im doing said work next)

 

I am aware of the need to anchor the vehichle and i normally go to the tow bar, with a strap round a decent tree, but for the benefit of public safety and being a public forum i was playing devils advocate, as i know many on here dont advocate this technique, but i do fully understand your points and tbh its a technique i use a lot of the time, especially in woodlands etc when using the atv on smaller stuff.

 

also i think if we are talking best practise i dont think it matters what the targets are, if it goes wrong it goes wrong, i know in a higher value situation like proximity to buildings different techniques would be used, also i full accept the limits of this equipment and have no issues getting bigger equipment in where needed.

 

but like i said none of this is personal its just trying to stimulate some discussion and get people thinking i have only used either tirfors in the past or smaller electric winchs which have been ok for what they have had to help pull over, im not about to start trying to winch over back leaning 40" dbh willows with a elecy winch on my defender

[David Humphries]

chalks away mate, i think Big Andy made some last year, they were mint:thumbup1:

 

I think that was Bob mate, but I could be wrong

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/large-equipment/15503-vehicle-winch-chocks.html

 

Here's the ones we use at work.

I nabbed them for the back of the Lany from our Denka

 

 

Really interesting thread Charlie, I've become aware of some very useful information

 

.

[Stephen Blair]

david, you have left very little room for movement in your vehicle positioning, lets say you dragged the jeep forward only 1m, you are then in a sticky wicket as you guys say, if rope length was the issue fair enough, but always carry extra strops, ropes, shackles with you.

Those chalks are ok for tarmac but on soft ground i wouldnt, going by the front of the chalks and the raised dirt the vehicle has shifted a bit.

[madmatt]

charlie,

 

theese are the winch chocks we use at work for soft ground they work fairly well. WINCH CHALLENGE WHEEL CHOCKS ( 1 PAIR ) on eBay (end time 26-Nov-10 14:48:14 GMT)