Learning rigging

[Joe Newton]

39 minutes ago, Rich Rule said:

I have to disagree.

 

Some of the muppets barely pass the CS39 or whatever it is called these days.

 

Would you really want them swinging heavy lumps around d on a rope?

 

Just let them get/ thy need experience with work positioning and comfortable, safe use of chainsaw in a tree.  
 

Then teach them rigging techniques.

 

Accident happen when people are expected to do thing outside their ability.

 

Also a large numbers  of climbers think their ability is much higher than what they are able to actually achieve.

 

 

Spot on, Rich

 

Let's also remember that Tree Climbing&Aerial Rescue is a prerequisite for Chainsaw from a Rope & Harness.

 

Both of which are required before you can do Aerial Rigging.

 

But sure, let's let candidates start rigging when their climbing or cutting competence hasn't even been assessed...

[krummholz]

8 minutes ago, AHPP said:

I meant the training schedule from the awarding body, describing what's on the course and what competencies you have to show to pass etc.

For the German SKT-B?

[AHPP]

Yes, please. 

[krummholz]

7 minutes ago, AHPP said:

Yes, please. 

Not an assessment schedule but a fairly detailed course schedule

 

https://www.landesforsten.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/skt-b-lehrgangsunterlagen-anmeldung-programm.pdf

[AHPP]

Danke

[krummholz]

13 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Spot on, Rich

 

Let's also remember that Tree Climbing&Aerial Rescue is a prerequisite for Chainsaw from a Rope & Harness.

 

Both of which are required before you can do Aerial Rigging.

 

But sure, let's let candidates start rigging when their climbing or cutting competence hasn't even been assessed...

 

I'm saying teach the basics of rigging along with the basics of aerial chainsaw use. Of course you'd have your tree climbing and aerial Rescue before doing the others, it's a prequisite. 

 

Whether or not candidates pass the assessments is down to them and their assessor on the day. The bar is pretty low, but that's where it's been put by the awarding bodies.

[krummholz]

12 minutes ago, AHPP said:

Danke

Bitte

[Rich Rule]

1 hour ago, krummholz said:

 

I'm saying teach the basics of rigging along with the basics of aerial chainsaw use. Of course you'd have your tree climbing and aerial Rescue before doing the others, it's a prequisite. 

 

Whether or not candidates pass the assessments is down to them and their assessor on the day. The bar is pretty low, but that's where it's been put by the awarding bodies.

I can see where you’re coming from but IMHO a lot of employers will have the box ticked so they think they good to go.  The young / new climber will be put into positions where they may not have the experience or ability to complete a complex rigging job.

 

Some employers seem to think that having a SE climber in for 5 days a week is ok as well.  When in reality they should be paying for PPE, Pension, Holiday pay and ongoing career development.  
 

I stress not all employers but there are definitely many who think the above scenario is ok.  Why would they think any different when it comes to jobs and the climbers competency?

 

“They have got the ticket they must be good to go”

 

I am all for pushing new climbers to expand their comfort zone, that’s how they progress and gain experience.

 

But in an attempt to make the industry more professional (which is something you hear on the regular). How will pushing inexperienced a climber way beyond their limits and the subsequent accidents help the cause of pushing the industry forward?

[Joe Newton]

I've often thought that an IRATA style training system whereby Level 1 (new) climbers must work x amount of hours under the supervision of a L3 (experienced supervisor) before progressing through L2 (unsupervised and competent) to L3

 

Our current system is a bit "survival of the fittest) which in hindsight has worked out well enough for me. 

[MattyF]

17 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

I've often thought that an IRATA style training system whereby Level 1 (new) climbers must work x amount of hours under the supervision of a L3 (experienced supervisor) before progressing through L2 (unsupervised and competent) to L3

 

Our current system is a bit "survival of the fittest) which in hindsight has worked out well enough for me. 

I think of every 30 climbers who enter this industry maybe 2 will still be in it in 10 years time..would be hard to get the experienced climbers to teach the level 1’s anything as there is rarely the time on site.