What will an ash woodland look like in 10 years time?

[5lab]

I'm considering purchasing a wood near here (south downs). It's on a steep slope and in an SSSI so there's no commercial value, it was going to be just to enjoy.

 

Today I realised the trees are 90% ash. Being in the south east there's loads of dieback around, and it's safe to say this wood probably has loads.

 

Reading reports it seems like it's going to kill 90+% of the ash at some point but I can't figure out what that will look like.  Due to the steepness of the site (I'd guess it averages a 20% slope), both felling and manually replanting the majority of it would be fairly unfeasible - but will it die slowly enough that new natural growth will take over (there's a few sycamores in a corner), or will it just be a barren wasteland for 30 years?

 

Ta for any help

[doobin]

I’m going with barren waste or brambles. Things grow painfully slowly on these thin chalk soils. 

[Stere]

Ash will mostly die brambless and pioneer trees like birch or blackthorn scrub with take over dependent on local seed sources soil type etc them will return to another dominant  tree species mix eventually

 

 

 

Wasteslands are seldom barren for nature & 20 slope doesn't mean you could'n do some planting or felling if you wanted.

 

 

[openspaceman]

35 minutes ago, doobin said:

I’m going with barren waste or brambles. Things grow painfully slowly on these thin chalk soils. 

Yes and a big clematis problem, damaging the replanting, in the one where I do some work.

[openspaceman]

6 hours ago, 5lab said:

both felling and manually replanting the majority of it would be fairly unfeasible - but will it die slowly enough that new natural growth will take over (there's a few sycamores in a corner),

Why? If it hasn't too far gone the ash still has a market and the removal creates bare patches for replanting. If it is in the park there are dedicated volunteer groups for planting and as long as the results are recorded the park will supply plants.

 

Natural England will not like sycamore within the SSSI though pragmatically it is suitable choice but squirrels are a big problem with it and Beech.

[petercb]

Bought a small ash woodland last year fully aware of dieback possibility. No sign of it yet and FC have approved management plan to basically thin carefully and just see how it goes, replanting as required. Some of the energy companies will supply trees and guards foc and we have used them to replant windblow areas in our other mainly Norway Spruce woodland. Elm in that wood dies off then regrows quite successfully till it gets to about 12- 14" dia. Not barren at all. Woodland needs managing whatever species in it, they don't just stand still.

[sime42]

"Nature abhors a vacuum"

[5lab]

Thanks for the replies.

 

My thoughts around replanting were more - if the site is covered in large fallen trees on a sketchy slope, physically getting to where you want to plant things would be a nightmare? Extracting the dead wood would be difficult - my understanding is that natural england don't like the use of heavy machinery on SSSI woodland floor (fair enough) and I'm not carrying it all out by hand

 

There's lots of scrub locally along the south downs, so if it will go like that for a decade or so then grow into a young woods, I can picture that in my mind - assuming 1-in-5 trees survives (as some aren't ash and some ash will make it) I guess it won't be completely empty anyway. I was trying to figure out if the differing resistance on a tree-by-tree basis means that some will last, say, 3 years before being dead and others will last 20, meaning the area never looks very "un-woods-y", but it doesn't seem like that would be the case.

 

I appreciate there will always be some plants there, but (in my opinion) 20 acres of scrubland isn't as nice as 20 acres of woodland to hang out in, so it might not be for me

 

[Muddy42]

On the plus side, ash is fantastic firewood.  Blambles are a natural tree guard against deer and allow pioneer trees to reestablish themselves. Watch out for deer, hares and other browsers, these had really delay recovery of the understory.  Nature will heal itself, but very slowly.  You don't need to kill yourself replant all the ground in one go, but you could do small areas or plant either side of a footpath.  Planting by hand on a 20 degree slope is still possible.

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, 5lab said:

 

 

My thoughts around replanting were more - if the site is covered in large fallen trees on a sketchy slope, physically getting to where you want to plant things would be a nightmare? Extracting the dead wood would be difficult - my understanding is that natural england don't like the use of heavy machinery on SSSI woodland floor (fair enough) and I'm not carrying it all out by hand

 

Yes, on the steep 15ha SSSI we have to keep to tracks which potentially means a 200 metre downhill pull (which itself has problems with big stems barreling down), I have not got beyond 100m myself as pulling wires up sets my heart thumping.

 

Some earlier work was felling conifer to waste (PAWS reverting to native), this was a big mistake IMO as getting through it is a winching nightmare, had it been extracted it would have made some return as biomass but the site is not cheap to double extract with the final forwarding being a 1km round trip.

 

1 hour ago, 5lab said:

 

- assuming 1-in-5 trees survives (as some aren't ash and some ash will make it) I guess it won't be completely empty anyway. I was trying to figure out if the differing resistance on a tree-by-tree basis means that some will last, say, 3 years before being dead and others will last 20, meaning the area never looks very "un-woods-y",

 

Dr. Jo Clark, who heads Future Trees and is running  a breeding trial for resistant strains, says no common ash is immune, some show good signs of resistance. I got the impression when she visited and identified about 6 trees on the site with full foliage, taking cuttings via shotgun next month, that this means once the main spore load from leaf litter under dying trees reduces we may see progeny surviving. Currently any seedling succumb in a season.