New to purchasing a woodland

[milkshakespoon]

Hey!

 

I’ve been interested in woodlands and forestry for a long time now. I just came across this forum on an internet search. Always had this dream that one day I’d own a woodland. As the years have passed I’ve done lots of online research into amenity woodland and commercial woodland.

 

I recently began really taking this dream seriously. I looked into amenity woodlands around an hour from home on websites like woodlands.co.uk and woods4sale.co.uk. I found a really nice one but it had some open applications regarding a footpath which put me off.

 

After looking at these woodlands for a while I began thinking maybe if I put in some more money I can buy a commercial woodland as an investment. I then get the benefits of using some of it for leisure and can have an investment at the same time.

 

I’d like to hear from some people who have had similar experiences. There’s a few things I have outstanding which I am struggling on. My career has been technology based, and I live in a small town, which has rural surroundings. I have zero practical knowledge in forestry.

 

- How to find a plot a suitable distance from where I live?

- How do I go about making a business plan for my investment?

- How do I go about planting, sizing and selling my timber?

- Where should I be looking for these opportunities?

- Any other help or points on where to continue my mission

 

Thanks!

[doobin]

You don't worry about planting, sizing and selling the timber as a woodland owner. Or if you do, you do it for a laugh, a business plan doesn't come into it unless you are managing thousands of acres. It's all contracted out on a per ton basis. Especially as you have zero experience.

 

You need to buy at the right price. The UK is full of idiots trying to sell an acre they bought from woodlands.co.uk for £50k, where you have a million covenants and no vehicle access rights. Other idiots with 6 acres think it's worth £150k when the reality is it would take a thousand years to harvest that value from it.

 

There is a price floor for commercial woodland at which point the rich buy in order to avoid inheritance tax. Commercial woodland is usually sold in large blocks and you will need to spend at least a million. And these folk couldn't give a flying **************** where it's located if the price is right. Otherwise Woodlands.co.uk will buy it and partition it.

 

Basically you either pay a substantial premium for an unemcumbered block near you, or you spend an awful lot to purchase a large block as an inheritance tax dodge.

 

If you are extremely lucky you may hear of a block coming up for sale locally at a reasonable price. Speak to land agents, farmers etc.

Edited January 10 by doobin

[milkshakespoon]

1 hour ago, doobin said:

You don't worry about planting, sizing and selling the timber as a woodland owner. Or if you do, you do it for a laugh, a business plan doesn't come into it unless you are managing thousands of acres. It's all contracted out on a per ton basis. Especially as you have zero experience.

 

You need to buy at the right price. The UK is full of idiots trying to sell an acre they bought from woodlands.co.uk for £50k, where you have a million covenants and no vehicle access rights. Other idiots with 6 acres think it's worth £150k when the reality is it would take a thousand years to harvest that value from it.

 

There is a price floor for commercial woodland at which point the rich buy in order to avoid inheritance tax. Commercial woodland is usually sold in large blocks and you will need to spend at least a million. And these folk couldn't give a flying **************** where it's located if the price is right. Otherwise Woodlands.co.uk will buy it and partition it.

 

Basically you either pay a substantial premium for an unemcumbered block near you, or you spend an awful lot to purchase a large block as an inheritance tax dodge.

 

If you are extremely lucky you may hear of a block coming up for sale locally at a reasonable price. Speak to land agents, farmers etc.

Thanks, that doesn't seem overly as positive as I had hoped 

Edited January 10 by milkshakespoon

[GarethM]

I think if it as the domestic version of time shares in the 90s and part of me hopes the industry eats itself alive before too many people get scammed with false promises and ideas of the good life.

 

Okay I'm biased as a farmer, but realistically unless you own the whole forest or the farm it's just a pointless waste of money.

 

I had one the other month asking about dog fields, she quickly realised fencing, planning etc etc makes it unviable. If it was I'd have done it 20 years ago 

Edited January 10 by GarethM

[milkshakespoon]

5 minutes ago, GarethM said:

I think if it as the domestic version of time shares in the 90s and part of me hopes the industry eats itself alive before too many people get scammed with false promises and ideas of the good life.

 

Okay I'm biased as a farmer, but realistically unless you own the whole forest or the farm it's just a pointless waste of money.

 

I had one the other month asking about dog fields, she quickly realised fencing, planning etc etc makes it unviable. If it was I'd have done it 20 years ago 

I assume you mean it's pointless if you don't own a large woodland? I am interested in owning the entire plot. Thinking of something like £100k

[GarethM]

And how many acres do you think that will buy, and then what to do with it.

 

You can't build anything, you can't live on it, you can't develop it and you can't take much timber for your own use either.

[John Hughes]

What area are you looking in? It is easier to find woodland  in Wales or Sussex  for that sort of money but here in Essex  they are non existent.   I own 40acres in Wales,   it was the best thing I have ever bought. I go down to it every 6 weeks or so for a weeks play. Don't  expect to make money out of it.

[Paul in the woods]

I went through this a few times over 10 years ago and know other woodland owners. I don't think anyone does it for an investment, they own them because they like being in their woodland - camping, cutting their own firewood, conservation, a bit of shooting etc, etc.

 

As you've mentioned you quickly realise that woodlotted woodlands can be an expensive and restrictive option (with good reason). I looked at large woodlands that were sold and then woodlotted so I got to know the prices.

 

I looked at woodland / land agents such as John Clegg and also looked at many of the agricultural estate agents / auctioneers in areas we were interested in. Sometimes farms and estates are sold in lots and sometimes the lots can be woodland. In the end we found 10 acres via the normal property sites but that was very lucky and cheap! 

 

I think some people can make a living from a decent bit of woodland but not by selling logs or timber but by adding value (apologies for that phrase) to the products and other activities such as keeping bees on the wood. Not easy and something you must really want to do.

 

It might be getting slightly easier to live on the wood if you can make a living, or just do what many people do and live on it regardless of the laws and hope for the best. 

 

Don't forget all the other costs and downsides, purchasing costs obviously, insurance, other obligations such as track maintenance, fencing, replanting, pest control and dealing with stuff you can't do yourself.

 

For help with management and getting some numbers on the volume of wood something like the myforest site should help you https://myforest.sylva.org.uk/ it could help with many of your other questions once you find somewhere.I

 

If you just want a woodland as a pure investment then I can't be much help. The main thing would be to hope the prices keep on rising but when you sell it you may be in for a hefty tax bill, CGTax allowances are being reduced and I expect more taxes on land owners.

 

[milkshakespoon]

1 hour ago, John Hughes said:

What area are you looking in? It is easier to find woodland  in Wales or Sussex  for that sort of money but here in Essex  they are non existent.   I own 40acres in Wales,   it was the best thing I have ever bought. I go down to it every 6 weeks or so for a weeks play. Don't  expect to make money out of it.

That's what I like to hear. I'm currently based in the south west, but Wales isn't too far from here and also debating moving that way anyway. 

 

You're right I see a lot of plots for reasonable prices that way.

[milkshakespoon]

31 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

I went through this a few times over 10 years ago and know other woodland owners. I don't think anyone does it for an investment, they own them because they like being in their woodland - camping, cutting their own firewood, conservation, a bit of shooting etc, etc.

 

As you've mentioned you quickly realise that woodlotted woodlands can be an expensive and restrictive option (with good reason). I looked at large woodlands that were sold and then woodlotted so I got to know the prices.

 

I looked at woodland / land agents such as John Clegg and also looked at many of the agricultural estate agents / auctioneers in areas we were interested in. Sometimes farms and estates are sold in lots and sometimes the lots can be woodland. In the end we found 10 acres via the normal property sites but that was very lucky and cheap! 

 

I think some people can make a living from a decent bit of woodland but not by selling logs or timber but by adding value (apologies for that phrase) to the products and other activities such as keeping bees on the wood. Not easy and something you must really want to do.

 

It might be getting slightly easier to live on the wood if you can make a living, or just do what many people do and live on it regardless of the laws and hope for the best. 

 

Don't forget all the other costs and downsides, purchasing costs obviously, insurance, other obligations such as track maintenance, fencing, replanting, pest control and dealing with stuff you can't do yourself.

 

For help with management and getting some numbers on the volume of wood something like the myforest site should help you https://myforest.sylva.org.uk/ it could help with many of your other questions once you find somewhere.I

 

If you just want a woodland as a pure investment then I can't be much help. The main thing would be to hope the prices keep on rising but when you sell it you may be in for a hefty tax bill, CGTax allowances are being reduced and I expect more taxes on land owners.

 

Thanks for this info. Really good to hear.

 

I'm hoping the investment side of things was more of a bi product of just owning and managing a lot.

 

I'll have a look into that website thank you