Bit of advice needed please?

[Muddy42]

The most consistent way to test with a moisture meter is to split a few logs and then test the inside. I imagine if you turn up at a firewood supplier with moisture meter and a full sized axe, they will soon get the message that you mean business! I find that logs at 25% moisture can still hiss, below 20% is best.

[Steven P]

Seasoned wood doesn't mean too much sorry to say unless they have specified that the wood will be at or below a set moisture content. You might also find shopping around that there is no specific quantity for a 'load', 'builders bag' 'ton bag' 'm3' either.. so if you find a supplier that you are happy with at a price you like I'd stick with them. Logs can't be sold by weight else you will always get them at the higher level of moisture when they way more.

 

For the dehumidifier.... every kg lighter that your logs become is a litre of water evaporated. However a dehumidifier according to the internets uses between 0.5 to 1kwh to remove 1 litre of water... removing 7% moisture could be 30 litres in 1m3, plus whatever household moisture it removes... so say 50kwh per m3.. which isn't insignificant and perhaps explains the advice above to dry outside (numbers from my head, might be off a bit). If you just throw the logs in the coal store as they are then long term (more than this winter) you will be making problems. Last point here is that you will get creepy crawly things coming out to play too....

 

So for your problem, drying the logs, if you can stack them outside then that is good. Try to find a spot where the wind will blow along them. I tend to stack mine maybe 1 1/2m high (or more) for however long I have logs... and the key point for the winter - 2 or 3 logs deep with the inner logs against the house wall. No cover on the top. So the winter wind will blow through all the gaps between the logs taking the drier winter air with it (winter air has less humidity than summer). The outside layer will get wet, the top 2 or 3 layers will get wet but the others will shed any water that trickles in the stack and will dry more than getting damper. Half way through winter (February sort of) I restock my dry logs with the inner bottom corner of the log pile and that seams to work OK - and restack the damper ones outside, some years some of these also dry enough.... if that makes sense.

 

 

20% moisture content....in all serious 22% isn't going to do much different apart from being a bit more fuel hungry as it dries that 2% off in the fire and not the atmosphere (I am never sure about putting logs near the fire to finish drying.... the energy is still being used). If needs must then you can even burn them at 27% but.. you will use more (and it will cost more then). The manufacturers specify 20% or whatever because to sell the stoves they have to demonstrate the stove efficiency and emissions which is easier to do at a lower moisture... so that is specified to keep them right.

 

For your seller, you could give them a call and tell them that they are not up to scratch as firewood. I suspect the answer will be similar to "we never specified them as 20%" or "we test our logs and everyone we have tested have been at 20%, though it might be the ones you got didn't dry as well as these, sorry!".. but for a refund.... good luck!

 

 

 

All said and done, kiln dried logs are a bit cheaper than gas but that equals out with the extra hassles, split and unseasoned will be cheaper again but an added hassle and straight off the back off the back of an arb truck an extra hassle (cutting, splitting, drying) probably the cheapest but most work. Collecting logs yourself, 5 car loads to the m3? still be paying out maybe £10 in petrol to get 'free' logs depends how far you travel - have you put yourself on the tip site (link above), you might get some logs dropped that way and perhaps that £10 a m3 petrol money could find its way to whoever is dropping them off - £5 notes or a nice bottle of wine and couple of beers appear to be the going rates

[scbk]

7 minutes ago, Steven P said:

All said and done, kiln dried logs are a bit cheaper than gas

The price of logs per kw can vary a lot, but here's a rough comparison of fuel types

 

Energy Cost Comparison — Nottingham Energy Partnership

WWW.NOTTENERGY.COM

 

[Steven P]

6 minutes ago, scbk said:

The price of logs per kw can vary a lot, but here's a rough comparison of fuel types

 

Energy Cost Comparison — Nottingham Energy Partnership

WWW.NOTTENERGY.COM

 

 

Thanks - I think I looked last winter when they were similar, gas prices have dropped a lot then!

[openspaceman]

22 hours ago, Peasgood said:

 

My logs are usually 17% ish but it is inevitable they creep up to 20% in the wettest times of winter as they take on atmospheric moisture.

I  find my softwood logs dry to as little as 12% over a single summer under cover, oak takes a bit longer but still less than 20% if split small.

 

This equilibrium moisture content is an interesting phenomenon in that there is a difference in the moisture content as the humidity changes but that difference is not the same when the humidity goes up as when it goes down. So a log dried to 12% in the summer will gain moisture as the RH increases to 90% in the winter but it will still be very slightly  lower mc than the same log drying  from green and in equilibrium at the same RH.

 

Also be wary of equilibrium mc tables from joinery firms as they tend to use mc on a dry weight basis where we tend to specify it on a wet weight basis. So their 25% mc dwb is our 20% mc wwb. I don't think my logs under cover can get higher than 17% even if the RH gets over 90% and I doubt even in wet places like the lake district they will get over 20%mc wwb if they have been dried lower.

[Vedhoggar]

On 08/10/2023 at 18:29, Got_Wood? said:

I recently bought 2m3 of supposedly seasoned logs. When stacking them, they felt quite wet so I bought a moisture meter (they were stacked within a couple of hours of being delivered). The wettest logs were on the top of the pile so they are at the bottom of the stack. When the meter arrived (2 days later) I split and tested some of the drier logs and they are showing somewhere between 27-29% so not dry enough to burn. 

 

I've spoken to the chap I bought them off who has basically said they have been seasoned but not undercover, and then wiped his hands of the problem.

 

I've got half the logs in a outside log store, and the other half in a coal shed. I believe that there are regulations that should be followed and I could probably report the seller, but I'm not really interested in going down that route if I don't have to.

 

I'm wondering if anyone could suggest roughly how long these may take to dry down to the 20% moisture they should be as this will help me make a decision on if I should push the seller for a refund/ replacement.

 

If it helps, the logs are mainly Ash. I realise a lot of people say that Ash can be burnt green but I don't want to burn anything more than 20% moisture.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Ash at 27-29% the firewood probably has as stated been " seasoned but not undercover", the thing is "seasoned" means different things to different people, it's the moisture content that is key, aim to get <20% moisture content to burn most efficiently, firewood in the log shed if kept dry should be ready to burn by late winter, the ones stored in the coal shed probably won't be as ventilation is important.

 

If you sell firewood in volumes of 2m3 (bulk/loose) in England which is not certificated covered by the Woodsure Certification Scheme you must provide customers with DEFRA notice stating among other things "This wood is not suitable for burning until it has been dried. You should not burn wood until it has a moisture content of 20% or less" ... some might just reference notice on their websites.

 

[Tikay Musiiwa]

If they're stacked right and it's not too damp out, they might dry down in a few months. Splitting 'em helps speed things up. Just keep them off the ground and covered on top to protect from rain.