Aerial Rescue Practice

[Pete Mctree]

I agree with a lot of points about the limitations of rescue in reality. I cut myself in 2006 and if I had not self rescued then it would have been a corpse that they retrieved. 
 

A major issue I have is the fact that someone, with only a few days climbing under there belt, is allowed to train and qualify in ariel rescue. In reality these people are only useful for box ticking on a risk assessment.

 

If we want a strong trained workforce, we need to change the training structure fundamentally. As an employer training staff, I want to pay nothing, have my staff off work for 10 minutes and they need to be able to climb and dismantle any tree in a day when they have finished. Sounds unreasonable? It’s the truth for most.

 

A simple solution might be to change the training model, to one that requires time in the tree before progressing. The rope access world successfully runs such a model and if we want as an industry to progress and be recognised then we need to change.

 

[5thelement]

12 hours ago, Pete Mctree said:

I agree with a lot of points about the limitations of rescue in reality. I cut myself in 2006 and if I had not self rescued then it would have been a corpse that they retrieved. 
 

A major issue I have is the fact that someone, with only a few days climbing under there belt, is allowed to train and qualify in ariel rescue. In reality these people are only useful for box ticking on a risk assessment.

 

If we want a strong trained workforce, we need to change the training structure fundamentally. As an employer training staff, I want to pay nothing, have my staff off work for 10 minutes and they need to be able to climb and dismantle any tree in a day when they have finished. Sounds unreasonable? It’s the truth for most.

 

A simple solution might be to change the training model, to one that requires time in the tree before progressing. The rope access world successfully runs such a model and if we want as an industry to progress and be recognised then we need to change.

 

The FCA proposed going back to basics a while back in regard to Forestry training.

An employee could do a 5 day training course in say, CMCC & felling up to 380mm (CS30/31) and then consolidate these skills under the guidance of their employer, getting a logged journal completed, hours on the saw per task etc, before sitting the NPTC assessment, can’t see why this couldn’t be carried over to Arb.

FISA and just about everyone else rubbished the idea, claiming it would be too difficult to manage, I can’t see why, that’s how it was when I started out, anything is doable with the right management, people just can’t be arsed.

 

[Steve Bullman]

58 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

FISA and just about everyone else rubbished the idea

Why sell one training course when you can sell 10

[krummholz]

1 hour ago, Steve Bullman said:

Why sell one training course when you can sell 10

Surely there is the opportunity (expectation?) for the 6 monthly aerial rescue practices to be self led - everyone has their aerial rescue ticket and so is a competent and certificated climber, so at the moment there's no requirement for a trainer to be present. However, without any guidance from the AA on the 6 monthly practice, busy managers and business owners with stretched resources are even less likely to schedule the practice even though we've been told in the TG1 it's mandatory.

 

Given that it's mandatory I also wonder what the implications of NOT doing the practice or having any records of it are?

[Steve Bullman]

21 minutes ago, krummholz said:

everyone has their aerial rescue ticket and so is a competent and certificated climber

I'd strongly disagree that anyone holding an aerial rescue ticket is a competent climber.

[krummholz]

15 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

I'd strongly disagree that anyone holding an aerial rescue ticket is a competent climber.

I guess that's a relevant but seperate issue, but I agree.

[Con]

31 years in the fire service has taught me, you can train as much as you want, the reality of a situation that is being described here will bare no resemblance to training for it. 

I admire the stance of the op, but how far are we prepared to take it? Refuse to work if training competencies aren't up to date?

Unfortunately,  that wouldn't get you very far in this industry.  Another point, I can envisage a scenario where a qualified, competent Climber could go to pieces in a serious situation,  and a groundsman that has never climbed a tree in his life could come to the fore.

Think someone mentioned this before,  It must be a rare occurrence, any stats?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[5thelement]

5 hours ago, krummholz said:

Given that it's mandatory I also wonder what the implications of NOT doing the practice or having any records of it are?

The implications are obvious, same as knowingly allowing your employees to work on one rope. Your Insurance will use it as an excuse not to pay out and HSE will use it as a lever in any court action.

All any employer has to do as part of the Management of Health and Safety at Work Act is to run regular refreshers/updates/training days, call them what you want.

No trainer has to be there, no course fees, training can be done ‘in house’ and recorded on the back of a fag packet if need be, it’s not hard.

[krummholz]

1 hour ago, Con said:

 

I admire the stance of the op, but how far are we prepared to take it? Refuse to work if training competencies aren't up to date?

Unfortunately,  that wouldn't get you very far in this industry.

Again, surely this is a problem? Various posters have stated that they often work without a designated rescue climber or one they know would be unlikely to effectively rescue them. What's the cost in walking away from work that will put you in an unacceptable risky position? A days wage? Versus loss of life or limb?

 

You wouldn't work for someone without professional Insurances, so what's the harm in asking about the last time they practiced aerial rescue?

 

A rising tide lifts all boats

[5thelement]

6 minutes ago, krummholz said:

You wouldn't work for someone without professional Insurances, so what's the harm in asking about the last time they practiced aerial rescue?

So you ask that question, they say “last week”… are you going to demand written proof or get up that tree you are being paid to dismantle?