Arb or not to arb?

[Danavan]

I have come across a good few co's resantly that are asking themselfs arb or not to arb? Most have already the AA aproval & are wondering if the re assesment is worth the £ for the re-assement let alone the extra £ they are told to cough up every time the re-assesment comes up, for what seems a £ project to futher themselfs 'profesionaly' & line pockets! Is anything actually done to promote the co's with the AA lable? I have not seen anything iom! The co's that are wanting to go for this farsical (imo) aceditation are working very hard at up date their paper wrk. I understand the need for this, but a little back up pro wise in all aspects would be good! I as a subbi have not come across this for the most part & find an increacing discontent among the ranks for lack of suport & back up in issues.

I welcome any shoot downs & harsh comments:001_tongue:

[treebloke]

I guess by your grammer you are not British.

 

The AA do a lot to promote its contractors. I have been approved since 1990 and believe its fully worthwhile

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited February 15, 2010 by Monkey-D
Thread is about AA not TCA, last line not relevant & inflamitory.

[scranner]

>I guess by your grammer you are not British.

 

I guess by your grammar ... etc etc

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Danavan, sorry no 'shoot downs' nor 'harsh comments' otherwise I'll get my marching orders BUT I completely acknowledge we need to do more to market the Approved Contractor (ACs) scheme and promote the standards for the benefit of all...and we are, albeit not in as big a way as most ACs would like us to as unfortunately we have limited resources with which to do this (BUT of course more ACs = more annual subs = more resources = more marketing & promoting).

The other thing here is that those companies who actively market & promote themselves on attainment of AC status do far better in terms of 'new' business generation than those who don't, may sound an obvious comment but my point is it has to be a 'two pronged' attack and, unfortunately those who achieve the status and sit back expecting the calls to come rolling in may have plenty of time for coffee and biccies.

The scheme qualifying criteria (see http://www.trees.org.uk/downloads/aaactcs.pdf, hope I'm not breaching any forum rules here Steve) seek to be a 'benchmark' for arboricultural contracting AND are recognised as such by the HSE, hence we attend their workshops for clients, Local Authorities etc., promoting them as such.

SORRY, I'm veering from your point, currently the re-assessment fees for ACs (2010 = £781.61+VAT) are incurred every 5 years, this is very likely to change to every 4 years from 2011, and there is an annual subs fee too (2010 = £460+VAT) AND 'Yeah' you don't ahve to be an AC to operate a successful tree company BUT if more were, and hence we had a 'voluntary regulation scheme' for the industry, we would have a bigger voice and better recognition....'SOAP BOX' removed!

Finally if any ACs feel we do "leave them in the lurch" post reassessment PLEASE contact me directly and I'll do all I can to help.

Thanks for the posting Danavan.

Paul

[Arborist Sites]

I know a number of larger corporate companies/organisations that only used AA approved contractors as they thought the were guaranteed good value and quality work

 

Once they had the pleasure of the smaller arb company they now use these as i have been told work standards are just as high if not better and rates are lower as they reley on repeat work and word of mouth for new jobs....

 

I personally think the AA got most people's backs up when they marketed it as an eliteist (sorry for spelling) thing. All you have to do is drive around and look at the quality of work...

 

 

The AA wont ever be able to police work quality, just the H&S side of things IMO, If thats so why dont you just go for ISO registration its much more valuable and widely recognised.

 

Speaking to AA approved contractors it seems that it is generally an excuse to raise prices, however in the current climate people will go for the best quality work at the lowest price.

 

NOTE: The above comments about work standards etc do not apply to everyone in the scheme as i have also seen some excellent work.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Arborist Sites

[educated arborist]

I have met many AC's who are less then happy with the scheme, i have also met those who rate it. It does have its problems & i hope that they can find the funding to rectify them, but that is the chicken & egg.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Thanks for your reply 'Arborist Sites',

I wholly acknowledge your point and 'policing' of the scheme is extremely difficult and, as I see it, the LA Tree Officer has a key role to play here as they are often the persons best placed so to do AND area often the biggest critics of ACs...so why not let me know directly AND provide photo's etc. Although I have to say that often their, or rather their Highway Engineers, tree work specifications result in none BS3998 compliant works being undertaken.

This is a very difficult one, and yes the reality is that if the company performs well on the assessment day they get the badge, so to speak, hence much emphasis is placed on the 'named manager role' and the fact they have responsibilities to ensure high quality work standards are maintained all the time. We have recently placed a much greater emphasis on 'self auditing' in this area in a bid to ensure this is acheived BUT again much of it's down trust and integrity.

As you also say there are many ACs out there doing excellent work, as there are EVEN more none ACs also doing excellent work, and surely it would be to the benefit of all if we joined forces someway to jointly market ourselves and promote standards....dunno?!

RE- 'elitism' I didn't ever mean to promote ACs as such, and I'm not aware we have, BUT I can accept there's a perception of such. What we seek to principally offer is an external accrediation of operational and work quality competence, that are relevant to arboricultural contracting, and that is useful to clients as an industry benchmark.

ISO9001 is a completely different type of award, as I'm sure you are aware, and whilst we cover some aspects of office procedures and systems management etc. we are principally concerned with H&S compliance and 'competence' performance.

Thanks for your comments and the oportunity to reply.

Paul

[Arborist Sites]

No worries Paul, it is great to finally have a voice from the AA on here and hopefully you will pass on some of the concerns of the smaller contractor.

 

I think the hardest point in the future for the AA is how are you going to represent the smaller firm, these chaps cant afford the AA approval costs and if you was to really push AA approval you would be potentially forcing these chaps into a corner further dividing the industry and degrading the quality of tree work as a whole. (i really dont envy your task)

 

Maybe you need to start some sort of half fat approval for smaller companies so that they can show there commitment to safe work practice and overall work quality.

[John Hancock]

maybe you need to start some sort of half fat approval for smaller companies so that they can show there commitment to safe work practice and overall work quality.

 

Do smaller firms need representation? If the standard of work is high and the commitment to H&S is there then I would’ve thought this alone would be enough.

 

Personally I think membership of the approved contractor scheme will reach a plateau (maybe it’s got there already…?)

 

You’ll always have large companies looking for and wanting representation. You’ll always have the quality independents coping admirably without….And as long as there are trees there will be the cowboys taking the money from under you no-matter who your alliance belongs to.

[Arborist Sites]

Do smaller firms need representation? If the standard of work is high and the commitment to H&S is there then I would’ve thought this alone would be enough.

 

Personally I think membership of the approved contractor scheme will reach a plateau (maybe it’s got there already…?)

 

You’ll always have large companies looking for and wanting representation. You’ll always have the quality independents coping admirably without….And as long as there are trees there will be the cowboys taking the money from under you no-matter who your alliance belongs to.

 

This is the industry body John and should represent everyone in the profession, not pick and choose.

 

If a company with 2 chaps wants to show its commitment to arb and be able to advertise this they shouldnt have to go through what the larger companies do as the majority of it wont apply.

 

Maybe the AA should look into something like the ISA with the certified arb, they could advertise this on there trucks etc and Mrs goggins could go on the AA site and see what it means etc, surely something like this has to be the way forward

 

I would personally see this as the way to start to shut the door on cowboys with no insurance etc and finally move the industry forward out of the stagnant and confused mess it is currently in...

Edited February 18, 2010 by Arborist Sites