Woodburner with Backboiler Advice

[findjammer]

Hi All,

 

I recently bought a house that already had a woodburner installed. I've no idea how much the previous owners used it but I suspect not very much, if at all, as I had to get the glass replaced due to it being cracked and not really sealing properly as a result. Also the house didn't even have a hint of woodsmoke smell about it.

 

Anyway, first thing I did was book a chimney sweep. He arrived and took a look at it and basically said he wouldn't do the job as it wasn't actually a safe/legal install.

 

Turns out that the the woodburner used to be plumed in as the water boiler. That has all been replaced with gas central heating. I think at that point it largely became a feature rather than something functional. The issue is the back boiler on the woodburner hasn't been filled with sand and capped and poses a danger as a result. Also the backing boards used in the wood burner surround aren't up-to-spec.

 

I've spoken to my brother about it (he was a British Gas engineer until 9 years ago) and said that the advice from the chimney guy about the back-boiler was right. I've also had another builder check the back boards and confirmed the same - not up to spec.

 

Anyway, the chimney peeps did a quote for supply and fit to correct everything - £3500. Including a new smaller burner, chimney liner and the backing boards sorted.

 

I didn't go ahead with that at the time as I had other things to do around the place with a higher priority.

 

I've now caught up a bit and had a number of other conversations with various people and it seems I have two overall options.

 

1. Get everything replaced as the original sweep quoted on.

2. Deal with the back-boiler and get it signed off by someone (corgi gas qualified?) and replace the backing boards and use this burner (obviously after getting the chimney itself checked and swept).

 

As I understand it, there is no legal requirement for a liner. That becomes a legal requirement when buying a new woodburner as it will almost certainly stipulate a liner in the installation instructions which then legally binds the installer and myself to ensuring it's installed as per the instructions.

 

Any advice on this and potential ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best,

 

James

[coppice cutter]

Just my opinion, others may differ.

 

Firstly, I'd probably buy a decent dry stove, either wood only or multi-fuel depending on what you intend to burn rather than bollocks about with the old one.

 

Secondly, check out the state of the chimney itself, is it brick, stone, ceramic lined, etc? It would probably be better with a liner but it's not always necessary, try to ascertain accurately if it needs one first.  Maybe some stove manufacturers say that a liner must be fitted but they certainly all don't, most recommend it which is probably the most sensible option if in doubt but check out the chimney first.

 

Thirdly, looks like the stove sits in a chimney breast, probably best just taking the boards out and getting it plastered. Best not skimmed, just sand and cement rubbed up and painted, or tile it if you really want.

 

Or of-course you could take the easy option, fork out the three and a half grand and hope it works out OK.

 

 

[openspaceman]

I'm with @coppice cutter that old stove is not worth having, especially not as an open fire as you will lose more heat up the chimney from the house, The difference I have seen quoted is 20% of the heat gets into the house from an open fire whereas a modern ecodesign stove will get pushing 80% into the room. An open fire just sitting there looking pretty in a centrally heated house dumps loads of wasted heat up the chimney.

 

BTW even if the back boiler is filled with sand it must never be sealed.

 

 

[coppice cutter]

4 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

BTW even if the back boiler is filled with sand it must never be sealed.

Wondered about that myself but didn't want to say as i've no experience or knowledge good or bad of it ever having been done.

 

Sounds a bit iffy to me.

[GarethM]

Sand absorbs and releases the heat slowly, it expands and contracts so needs to breath and not explode like a tin can.

 

Whilst in theory left empty it would be safe, it can cause the steel frame to warp, like when you're a little too eager with the welder.

 

Bin the ancient thing, do whatever the stove installer says is required, preferably with an external fresh air kit to save a bit more heat.

 

It's HETAS not corgi, corgi can't even touch it as they are gas only.

Edited January 17, 2023 by GarethM

[findjammer]

Thanks everyone. Much food for thought.

 

I must admit when the first guy said the back boiler needed to be capped as well as filled, that just didn't make any sense to me either.

 

Think I'm going to park this particular project for now as I still have other priorities really.

 

You're all pretty much echoing the chimney guy I spoke too.

 

I don't need one that big and it's not efficient anyway. Ergo. Ditch it and start again.

 

Thanks all!

[Muddy42]

It depends how handy you are but if it were me I'd try and remove the stove and backing boards myself and then sweep the chimney.  Maybe you can borrow rods and brushes, but even if you buy then it'll be cheaper than a sweep.  I'd maybe wait until warmer weather in case you let in a draft.

 

Watch out for new ecodesign stoves. They are designed to be very fuel efficient to burn and re-burn the smoke so what exits the chimney is very clean.  However they achieve this by having a small exit that is close to the door. In the real world this leads to lighting difficulties and smoking into the room.  They need to have the perfect flue and conditions with a very high draft, I suspect an unlined flue won't cut it.

 

I have had mine for a few months and it takes all my boyscout skills to get it lit - open the window a crack, small hot fire at first etc.  Whereas I have an older non-ecodesign stove (identical flue, same stack) that you can light with your eyes closed.  

[findjammer]

I think I'm going to chalk this up to experience and get the professionals in.

 

Given that it has such varied potentials in legal terms and practical terms I think it's best left to the peeps that know.

[difflock]

Just spotted this post, I disconnected a humengeous plumbed-in solid fuel stove, the biggest Clearview I think, anyway 9kW to the water,9kW to the room) by simply doing away with the pipework and mostly draining the boiler. Obviously NOT capping the boiler connections.

The daughter has been using it ever since without issue to burn wood.

 

[Steven P]

Here is an experiment, outside, have a fire in the garden and place a sealed tin of beans on it. Puncture a tin of beans and place that on at the same time. Stand well back and wait as they heat up.

 

 

If it is sealed. or can become sealed in use then I believe it becomes a pressure vessel and subject to all sorts of other regulations.

 

Does capped mean sealed though, or just protected so that hot air expanding out of it isn't directed to a person standing nearby?

 

 

Legal requirement for a liner? Not such a thing (see below), unless it forms a part of a sales contract with you and a stove supplier. Nearly all manufacturers of anything will recommend stuff but not demand it  (legal issues on both sides, if they tell you to spend money doing something and turns out you don't need to, you can claim on them you see). Recommended though, but if you chimney is in good condition then you will be OK. What is the chimney at the moment? If it is lined you might get away with just a stove install.

 

I'd be tempted to take it out at a suitable time and get it replaced. Removal could be a DIY job - the boards are - but the stove will be heavy and need a couple of you to get it out the house. Get the sweep back though - I'd recommend that for a first time sweep anyway - tell them the stove is being replaced and you want the chimney swept and inspected (they will more than likely put a smoke pellet in, check all the way up for leaks, check the chimney pots and chimney). Do that in advance of the stove being installed - just in case you need remedial works doing, be a shame to watch a brand new stove doing nothing while you wait for a builder to do works.

 

If you have a chimney liner just now and if the sweep says it is good to go then I'd get the installers to remove the old stove... they will know how to do that without damaging the liner if you tell them to reuse it.

 

 

Final couple of thoughts, does it work OK as it is? and from above, sweeping it yourself, can be a DIY job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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