Will a lot of small domestic tree firms go bust?

[Clutchy]

8 minutes ago, Retired Climber said:

Are they your 'money' search terms? Fancy posting your neg list too? 

 

Its just google search data from 'trends' not specific to me at all. My neg list mostly consists of 'cheap tree surgeons' 'cheap tree surgery' etc haha 

[GarethM]

You only have to be on companies House if your a ltd company.

[Retired Climber]

Just now, GarethM said:

You only have to be on companies House if your a ltd company.

If you aren't a company, you aren't a company. All companies will be listed, including LLP's etc. Only sole traders and non limited partnerships will be omitted. 

[Clutchy]

Our industry really means you should have a limited company, makes no sense to be a sole trader IMO 

[Puffingbilly413]

Just now, Clutchy said:

Our industry really means you should have a limited company, makes no sense to be a sole trader IMO 

Def not the case - there are vast numbers of tree firms that operate as sole traders; I can think of at least 5 local to me.

 

But I agree - I don't think it's sensible.  I'm a limited company, mostly because I want to keep any liability issues separate from my personal finances.

[GarethM]

Glad I'm not the only voice of some common sense. Even sole traders are companies of sorts, obviously the distinction should have been a die off of ltd and other registered companies.

[Clutchy]

I can't understand any situation where not going limited from day 1 would be better. 

 

Just now, GarethM said:

Glad I'm not the only voice of some common sense. Even sole traders are companies of sorts, obviously the distinction should have been a die off of ltd and other registered companies.

Are you a sole trader by any chance? 

This really is semantics in reference to the OP though... the data I provided was for frequency of google search terms, I'm sure we can discuss the topic for now without the knowledge of number of sole traders.  

[GarethM]

I am a sole trader of a couple of small companies. Limited or VAT status is of course a future possibilities, but start small and all of that.

 

What I was trying to convey was you can't judge an industry by that data, whilst the ones most in debt will fail that's not any different to the past or the future.

 

Shiny chippers and vans bought of massive credit, working 5 days to cover the payments it's inevitable compared to those who started with nothing and earned their way up.

[Clutchy]

1 minute ago, GarethM said:

Shiny chippers and vans bought of massive credit, working 5 days to cover the payments it's inevitable compared to those who started with nothing and earned their way up.

 

Maybe. Working 5 days a week is part of running the business, you should have work every day, not like you can have staff sitting around or decide to not pay them that day anyway. 

Having finance debt doesn't mean you're more likely to fail IMO I'd say its more to do with what £££ you're bringing in everyday, not having any 1 single client that are more than 10-20% of your work and having a good mix of domestic and commercial work. 

If you can't afford the finance on a van and chipper, you were never running a proper company to begin with. Companies with financed kit get a lot of stick on here but there are huge benefits. A KNOWN monthly cost, warranty and positive pressure to increase your daily income inline with your expenses. Much harder to do on a old and potentially less reliable van and chipper that is really hard to factor a daily running cost as you need to allow for future replacement within. 

[Puffingbilly413]

32 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

What tree company isnt on companies house? 

 

If there are any 1-2 man companies on here that have not got a registered company, what are you actually doing? 

 

They honestly don't even come into this discussion and I believe they would be the absolute minority of tree surgeons (ignoring subby climbers)

To be fair you did post 'small domestic tree firms' and a huge numer of these will be sole traders, so they should form part of the discussion.

To answer your question, I think many will go bust.  But that could also be the case for large firms - big turnover, loads of kit and loads of outgoings.  I don't think size is the issue, more whether they have a solid core of clients that will still be needing work done during a recession.  A small firm that has no finance on its kit etc with no or minimal yard rent could weather such a storm quite well potentially.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Puffingbilly413