Is it worth milling ash with die-back?

[maven]

We are felling 3 mature ash trees that have die-back. I had hoped to have them milled to make a table top and perhaps some counter-tops. However, I've been told that once there is the fungal infection the lignin in the tree starts breaking down, and the wood will begin to decay. Does that mean it isn't worth the time/effort/expense of milling and is only good as fire wood?

[Stere]

Depends  just look at the wood and use your own judgement imo as some might be fine,. I think its not the hard to see...how far gone it is etc.

 

I felled some ash with it recently with about 50% of the canopy lost.  The rot/stain was only in 1/4 of the trunks cross section of the rings on some trees,  on  some others less.

 

Saving some of the wood to make tool handles.

 

Ash might be  virtually unavailable in future due to adh so nice to save some for projects.

[maven]

It looked mostly good wood, with some upper trunk forks and branches having rot through the heart (which I obviously wouldn't use). It was just the comment of one of the chainsaw guys that he thought ash dieback meant that the wood would decay fast that made me doubt whether the wood that looked fine really was.

 

This particular tree had the least obviously dead canopy of the three we have decided to fell*, but my neighbour was keen we cut it back or felled it as it overhung his greenhouse and he was concerned about falling deadwood. It is also about 20m from a power cable, so if it wasn't in good enough condition for climbers to work on it, it would have been a trickier job, as they couldn't use a cherry-picker - hence deciding to fell it this year, not wait longer.

 

*We have a lot of ash trees on our 35 acre holding. Some seem unaffected by dieback, some have visible deadwood making up a proportion of the canopy, and two by the driveway have little living canopy this year, just leaves on skinny new branches that come from the trunk. We can leave some of the smaller trees to see if they survive, and one of the larger ones that is out the way to decay in its own time, but the two that overhang the driveway need to come down, and my neighbour was keen to also remove the one near his greenhouse, having had a bit of a scare when a 70+ foot poplar came down in the storm, and the insurance inspector said they all had bracket fungus and should be felled - leading us to now have 20 tons of poplar in our front field! I even wondered whether any of that was worth milling, once they have the rig on site. But poplar is not a very hard wood, so I'm not sure it would have as much use planked as the ash, so my only plan for it beyong firewood was to experiment with infecting some with chicken-of-the-woods.

Edited September 19, 2022 by maven

[Dan Maynard]

Search threads, whether poplar is worth milling is a regular question and it does have uses.

[Squaredy]

On 19/09/2022 at 18:36, maven said:

It looked mostly good wood, with some upper trunk forks and branches having rot through the heart (which I obviously wouldn't use). It was just the comment of one of the chainsaw guys that he thought ash dieback meant that the wood would decay fast that made me doubt whether the wood that looked fine really was.

 

This particular tree had the least obviously dead canopy of the three we have decided to fell*, but my neighbour was keen we cut it back or felled it as it overhung his greenhouse and he was concerned about falling deadwood. It is also about 20m from a power cable, so if it wasn't in good enough condition for climbers to work on it, it would have been a trickier job, as they couldn't use a cherry-picker - hence deciding to fell it this year, not wait longer.

 

*We have a lot of ash trees on our 35 acre holding. Some seem unaffected by dieback, some have visible deadwood making up a proportion of the canopy, and two by the driveway have little living canopy this year, just leaves on skinny new branches that come from the trunk. We can leave some of the smaller trees to see if they survive, and one of the larger ones that is out the way to decay in its own time, but the two that overhang the driveway need to come down, and my neighbour was keen to also remove the one near his greenhouse, having had a bit of a scare when a 70+ foot poplar came down in the storm, and the insurance inspector said they all had bracket fungus and should be felled - leading us to now have 20 tons of poplar in our front field! I even wondered whether any of that was worth milling, once they have the rig on site. But poplar is not a very hard wood, so I'm not sure it would have as much use planked as the ash, so my only plan for it beyong firewood was to experiment with infecting some with chicken-of-the-woods.

The poplar is not as useful as the ash generally.  BUT if you are in my neck of the woods and there is access for a timber lorry I would probably buy it from you for a decent price.  I am South East Wales - anywhere near you?

[Squaredy]

On 19/09/2022 at 18:36, maven said:

It looked mostly good wood, with some upper trunk forks and branches having rot through the heart (which I obviously wouldn't use). It was just the comment of one of the chainsaw guys that he thought ash dieback meant that the wood would decay fast that made me doubt whether the wood that looked fine really was.

 

This particular tree had the least obviously dead canopy of the three we have decided to fell*, but my neighbour was keen we cut it back or felled it as it overhung his greenhouse and he was concerned about falling deadwood. It is also about 20m from a power cable, so if it wasn't in good enough condition for climbers to work on it, it would have been a trickier job, as they couldn't use a cherry-picker - hence deciding to fell it this year, not wait longer.

 

*We have a lot of ash trees on our 35 acre holding. Some seem unaffected by dieback, some have visible deadwood making up a proportion of the canopy, and two by the driveway have little living canopy this year, just leaves on skinny new branches that come from the trunk. We can leave some of the smaller trees to see if they survive, and one of the larger ones that is out the way to decay in its own time, but the two that overhang the driveway need to come down, and my neighbour was keen to also remove the one near his greenhouse, having had a bit of a scare when a 70+ foot poplar came down in the storm, and the insurance inspector said they all had bracket fungus and should be felled - leading us to now have 20 tons of poplar in our front field! I even wondered whether any of that was worth milling, once they have the rig on site. But poplar is not a very hard wood, so I'm not sure it would have as much use planked as the ash, so my only plan for it beyong firewood was to experiment with infecting some with chicken-of-the-woods.

Just realised you are Matlock - not exactly local to me...

[wills-mill]

We've been doing a fair bit of diseased Ash and it's pretty decent. You'll soon notice any really punky or soft areas, and the outside of the log will tell you if the middle is going to be horrendous.

I wouldn't trust the boards so much in traditional jobs where the springiness of Ash was required, but for basic slab type material it's been totally fine.

[Welshfred]

I've been splitting some rounds for firewood off a dieback Ash I felled late last winter. When felled the lower trunk looked normal, nice and pale, no sign of fungus. Left lying in lengths for 8 months and now the wood is full of brown staining and mycelium under the bark. So the tree must have been full of fungus at felling time even though only visible in the crown wood and it's got going very nicely in the felled timber. 

I was thinking of milling some of the trees still to be felled but I'm wondering if it's worth it, the trees are a year further down the diseased path and it seems the whole thing is infected. Perhaps if the boards were stacked dry and perhaps debarked the fungus would die off... 

[Dan Maynard]

It makes sense that drying it out would stop the fungus.

[openspaceman]

13 hours ago, Welshfred said:

I've been splitting some rounds for firewood off a dieback Ash I felled late last winter. When felled the lower trunk looked normal, nice and pale, no sign of fungus. Left lying in lengths for 8 months and now the wood is full of brown staining and mycelium under the bark. So the tree must have been full of fungus at felling time even though only visible in the crown wood and it's got going very nicely in the felled timber. 

I was thinking of milling some of the trees still to be felled but I'm wondering if it's worth it, the trees are a year further down the diseased path and it seems the whole thing is infected. Perhaps if the boards were stacked dry and perhaps debarked the fungus would die off... 

Recent research sees to suggest a tree grows up with the propagules of various fungi within it, just like we humans have more microbe cells in our bodies than human cells. These propagules then become active rotters when the tree is stressed or dying from an onslaught of spores like we see with chalara.

 

Whether it is these fungi within or just secondary infections you are seeing I don't know but previous experience from windblown beech some 35 years ago suggests there is a significant loss of strength within a couple of years even though the wood looks white still. Mature rees with dieback symptoms may have been repeatedly infected  over a number of years since 2012 to give opportunity for secondary infections to take hold.

 

Also I do not know if chalara itself affects the wood.