Kiln dried logs and a globally warmer climate

[neiln]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

Then why bother with the thread? 🙄

Because I'm hot and bored.  

[gdh]

Logs will dry well in this weather but unlike kiln drying you can't rely on it. If you're selling small amounts or have unlimited space under cover you can air dry but even then a wet year and some delayed cutting can soon mean you're not ready for the winter.

 

Kiln drying is just a different method that means you can cut through the winter and adapt to demand as orders come in.

[John Skinner]

3 hours ago, neiln said:

Sat here trying to do nothing and trying to stop the kids getting hot and grumpy.  I had a thought and looked it up.  40C and 30-40 RHI weather, wood equilibrium moisture content is about 7-8%. Why do we need kiln dried logs again? 😂

 

Seriously though, how dry will my oak logs, seasoning since November/December 2020, be by October if this summer carries on?  I might have to try and find my cheap moisture meter.

I think Lidl has moisture meters in this week for about £10, probably with a 3yr warranty.

[neiln]

I didn't ask why producers kiln dry, I get space, throughput of material and even rhi are compelling.  I asked why we need it.  We bring the consumer and referring to how a lot of marketing from stove manufacturers, the wider industry and of course producers using kilns push kiln dried as essential. I'm not grinding any axe for any producers btw, just musing as a consumer. The title was meant to suggest that if hotter/drier/sunnier weather becomes more reliable then perhaps quality air dried logs become more reliably produced and bought.  That's straightforward for me in the South doing my own anyway, all my logs dry at least 2 summers some 3. 

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, neiln said:

I didn't ask why producers kiln dry, I get space, throughput of material and even rhi are compelling.  I asked why we need it.  We bring the consumer and referring to how a lot of marketing from stove manufacturers, the wider industry and of course producers using kilns push kiln dried as essential. I'm not grinding any axe for any producers btw, just musing as a consumer. The title was meant to suggest that if hotter/drier/sunnier weather becomes more reliable then perhaps quality air dried logs become more reliably produced and bought.  That's straightforward for me in the South doing my own anyway, all my logs dry at least 2 summers some 3. 

Simple answer is those selling logs generally don’t have the space to store logs for 1-3 years. It’s as simple as that. Get them in a dryer and they’re done in a week. 

The pictures of your house shows a place brimming with firewood. That’s just for you. Now a company trying to run a business selling firewood, can you imagine the space needed to make that business viable air drying?
 

Kiln drying does not need to mean it’s dried with hydrocarbons, this has now been mentioned in two previous posts. Kiln drying with waste produced by the process of making firewood is the way forward.   

[Macpherson]

4 hours ago, neiln said:

Sat here trying to do nothing and trying to stop the kids getting hot and grumpy.  I had a thought and looked it up.  40C and 30-40 RHI weather, wood equilibrium moisture content is about 7-8%. Why do we need kiln dried logs again? 😂

 

Seriously though, how dry will my oak logs, seasoning since November/December 2020, be by October if this summer carries on?  I might have to try and find my cheap moisture meter.

 

 

Here in the wet NW I store my firewood on a line of pallets with a long specially made tarp for a cover, under some trees so not totally exposed and logs cut to just under 12" and split, mostly Birch, Alder, Ash, Holly, Hazel, Prunus, Larch, Spruce and some Oak.. so a good mix and most down to below 15% mc after a year and around 10 / 13 if left longer.. so for personal use I agree with you but as a commercial operation I'd imagine the process would be too slow.

 

But having said that I can't imagine how anyone that uses a wood stove wouldn't have a system similar to mine.. at least a years worth of seasoned wood in reserve at all times so surely the sensible and economic way to acquire firewood is green and season it yourself which I've always done ... after all it's a way of life, cheers.

[Doug Tait]

There are a lot of people that aren't interested in the hassle of seasoning/processing themselves. Just want to make a phone call and get delivery next day. Stack it and use it is as much work as they want to do.

[neiln]

On 17/07/2022 at 22:41, trigger_andy said:

Simple answer is those selling logs generally don’t have the space to store logs for 1-3 years. It’s as simple as that. Get them in a dryer and they’re done in a week. 

The pictures of your house shows a place brimming with firewood. That’s just for you. Now a company trying to run a business selling firewood, can you imagine the space needed to make that business viable air drying?
 

Kiln drying does not need to mean it’s dried with hydrocarbons, this has now been mentioned in two previous posts. Kiln drying with waste produced by the process of making firewood is the way forward.   

Use of hydrocarbons only seems to be mentioned in 2 posts if you count your own Andy. I always thought most/all kiln setups used wood and the RHI payments were very valuable.

Edited July 18, 2022 by neiln
typo

[Dan Maynard]

The other two problems with storing the logs to dry are having two or three years cashflow tied up in stock isn't good for any business if you can help it, and without a kiln you have no way to respond to a good year of sales as you just have to guess how well logs are going to sell two years in advance rather than 6 weeks. If it stays cold through March and April you might make an extra 2 months of sales.

 

Like you I solve both of these problems by not paying for the raw material so no cash tied up, and keeping a massive excess stock. I'm not a commercial producer either.

 

Edit gdh already said about adapting to demand, sorry.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Dan Maynard
Missed gdh point earlier

[trigger_andy]

1 hour ago, neiln said:

Use of hydrocarbons only seems to be mentioned in 2 posts is you count your own Andy

Thats what I said..... Its been mentioned in two previous posts. 🙄