2 rope climbing are we sticking to the rules

[john87]

Hi All,

I am VERY much a beginner, and i can tell you that trying to operate TWO climbing systems at once, would be FAR too complicated for me..

 

It would be like sticking a car driver in a proper [not the modern rubbish] truck with no syncro, 13 speeds, a range change and a splitter. They would not get very far..

 

Besides, if it is only YOU at "risk" then the HSE rules do not apply to you anyway.. [just do not fall on a groundie]

 

john..

[john87]

3 hours ago, HMW said:

Afternoon, thought i would stick my two cents in as a relatively new climber (5 months in since passing my  climbing tickets). So i've work with saws and forestry side of things for 5-6 years so i wasn't completely clueless - only when it came to climbing. When i first started climbing i must admit i was fairly uncomfortable with the height and the two lines helped me feel more at ease. However as i've done more and more climbing i got used to and fairly comfortable with the height. I think it should be completely up to the climber as its your life on the line and as everyone points out each tree is completely different and cant be covered under one blanket rule - in big trees ( spread wise), i find using two lines allows myself to find a much more stable position when working. However in smaller trees two lines can get hugely confusing and almost dangerous, as i've found its much harder to spot a crossloaded biner or a gate on a biner that has got caught on one of the four lines that comes back to your bridge, which especially for a brand new climber who has a million things going through there head isn't going to help the situation let alone in an emergency. I know i've got a long way to go and only just started my career in this industry just  thought that my humble opinion might offer a different view point from you lads that have been climbing for far more years than myself.

 

 

Agree 1000%

 

john..

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

3 hours ago, HMW said:

Afternoon, thought i would stick my two cents in as a relatively new climber (5 months in since passing my  climbing tickets). So i've work with saws and forestry side of things for 5-6 years so i wasn't completely clueless - only when it came to climbing. When i first started climbing i must admit i was fairly uncomfortable with the height and the two lines helped me feel more at ease. However as i've done more and more climbing i got used to and fairly comfortable with the height. I think it should be completely up to the climber as its your life on the line and as everyone points out each tree is completely different and cant be covered under one blanket rule - in big trees ( spread wise), i find using two lines allows myself to find a much more stable position when working. However in smaller trees two lines can get hugely confusing and almost dangerous, as i've found its much harder to spot a crossloaded biner or a gate on a biner that has got caught on one of the four lines that comes back to your bridge, which especially for a brand new climber who has a million things going through there head isn't going to help the situation let alone in an emergency. I know i've got a long way to go and only just started my career in this industry just  thought that my humble opinion might offer a different view point from you lads that have been climbing for far more years than myself.

 

 

Thanks for your pragmatic post here.

 

A couple of things in reply:

- If your in climbing in the workplace then whilst your life might primarily be your responsibility, it is also your employers responsibility and hence they should ensure you operate in accordance with any current industry guidance, e.g. Technical Guide 1 - Sect. 6 (see https://www.trees.org.uk/Book-Shop/Products/Technical-Guide-1-Tree-Climbing-Aerial-Rescue-en )

 

- This guidance, and from the associated industry code of practice, does not require the use of "two ropes", although that's how it's always interpreted AND often the solution businesses adopt (a 'belt-n-braces' approach to some extent, and the most suitable technique in many situations.) The guidance requires the use of a primary system (climbing rope) AND a backup system - this can be a 2nd rope, but can be the other-end of the same rope - can be a long adjustable lanyard - can be a belay system - can be a flip-line when sectioning down. Hence there is a range of options available (the example you mention, a smaller tree with congested crown (eg fastigiate hornbeam or whitebeam maybe) could be a climbing line plus lanyard e.g.)

When cutting, a 3rd lanyard / anchor should be used to aid work positioning and/or where there may be a risk to the 'personal fall protection system' (the primary PLUS backup.) Technical Guide 2 - Sect. 9 (see  https://www.trees.org.uk/Book-Shop/Products/Technical-Guide-2-Use-of-Tools-in-the-Tree )

 

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

 

ATB

Paul 

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Sorry, just to clarify, the first point applies equally to employees and self-employed people working for a business, i.e. it's not a case of "one rule for one and not for the other" (albeit often more difficult to get compliance.) 

[Stubby]

I am now putting 2 pairs of socks on before I go up stairs , I mean you never know ...

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

1 minute ago, Stubby said:

I am now putting 2 pairs of socks on before I go up stairs , I mean you never know ...

BUT you could put one pair of socks on AND some leg-warmers and that would be fine, lol

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

PS just noticed I'm a Veteran Member ...when do I become 'Ancient' (anybody else there yet?)

[Stubby]

Just now, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

BUT you could put one pair of socks on AND some leg-warmers and that would be fine, lol

Yea but leg warmers are so 80s Paul ....

[john87]

8 minutes ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

self-employed people working for a business

That is a contradiction in terms??

 

john..

[Stubby]

5 minutes ago, john87 said:

That is a contradiction in terms??

 

john..

Has this anything to do with socks or leg warmers ? If not please don't de rail 😁