Leaning Pine tree (TPO) towards home

[AjiN]

Dear experts,

 

I’m hoping someone can advise me on the below query please.

We moved in this new build home around 2.5 years ago. All the trees have a TPO.

This , I believe it’s a Pine tree already had a slight lean when we bought it. However, we’ve noticed lately that this tree has started to lean considerably more towards our home. Not being knowledge about this, I have no idea how dangerous this will be, how the lean/angle can be determined.

The lean is only visible from the side. Initial we though it’s the way how the tree grew to get sunlight. I have attached some pictures for your review.

 

The tree is around 12/13 meters away from our home. My question is, looking at this lean, is it a danger for the house for it fall over at some point (because it will destroy the house in the event if it falls over to that side).

I have asked the builder to provide any paperwork when they surveyed before building (assuming they would have made some kind of assessment before building). All the other trees are quite straight.

Also – in the event it needs to be pruned to balance or removed, how much danger is there in regards to heave. As mentioned, the ground is very much clay ground and the tree has been here many years prior to building these house.

 

I do apologies, I have absolutely no idea to deal with this it having a TPO on it along with the approximate costs it might bring with it. 

I really appreciate your expertise advise.

Thank you

[Khriss]

First thing i noticed was it doesnt look like soil level been raised, often case on construction sites, thats in its favour, but measuring is only way to assess if its progressing the lean. K

[openspaceman]

32 minutes ago, AjiN said:

(because it will destroy the house in the event if it falls over to that side)

No way, it may break a window, a few battens and tiles, maybe a rafter/truss but that's about all.

 

You don't know what trees were next to it before the development that caused it to lean because they are long gone.

 

It doesn't look like there is an sign of soil lifting so , as Khriss says pick a spot about 10ft up facing the house and measure to a known spot on the house then monitor.

 

There's not much scope with doing anything to the tree and the TPO  means you best get used to it being there as once confirmed there is not much you can do.

 

It looks like a Pinus nigra variety, are the needles in pairs?

 

 

[Beardie]

You need to speak to the Tree Officer at the council. Trees with TPOs can be felled if they endanger a house, but you need to prove it, which would involve having it monitored over a period of time.

[Hodge]

Get a tree survey done on the tree, see what the consultant says. Tree Officers are usually open to what consultants suggest imo.

[AjiN]

Hi everyone,

Thank you kindly for your advise and input so far. This is very much appreciated.

I have in the mean time requested the reports  from the developer to see what the arborist advised when surveying these trees (this used to be an old golf course, and I don’t believe these trees have been managed over the years).

 

This is what I received back from them (attachment attached for your reference):

“Statement of TP tree in 2012:

Single Trunk; leans from base to S as done entire main scaffold and branching of the tree; 3 stemmed from approx. 8.5 m; dominant is the N, unions appear sound; visible for some distance E&W from within the site and likely to be for longer distance to the N; one of the more established components of the trees within the line in which it grows and individually as part of that collections it provides a screen towards that part of the boundary; considered to be of some arboricultural value.

Tree survey observation from 2016:

Significant branch on “western canopy has failed leaving a large scar. Downgraded as a result. A tree of low quality and value in the landscape.

Work: Remove opped branch back to stem

Screenshot attached.

Developer advised:

The flowing is the extract from the arboroligcal information the develop submitted to carry out works to TP trees around the end of 2019; approval for works under * reference 19/01845/Tree – October 2019, Arb same as 2016 survey report, they did remove other trees along the boundary but non were the TPO’d.

Extract October 2019:

Remove all dead wood and crown clean (small amount of storm damage). Notified for the avoidance of doubt.

The developer advised it was not highlighted to be removed or a risk at this time though as with everything we are 3 years on nearly so this may of changed”

 

I would like to ask for your valuable advise please?

 

Should the developer not followed up on the arbo’s 2016 and 2019 recommendation/reference and carried out the work that was suggested (as I don’t believe it has), is it not their responsibility here and should they still not action this. In my opinion, if the crown clean was done this tree would not have leaned over as it’s doing now. 80% of the branches are facing the leaned way. Looking at the extract there is mentioning of low quality and value in the landscape of this particular tree. I’m not seeking of removal of the tree (scared of potential heave/subsidence!).

Concerns were addressed but no action was taken. Each time we were told the tree is safe, there is a TPO on the tree no work can be done, no roots are available not to worry etc.

How do I make a strong case to the developer to request to survey the tree again, speak with the council re the TPO and do the necessary work, which was already outlined and any other work if needed to be (as they failed to do so to start with).

My main concerns are safety  (children’s room), young children constantly in the garden (during the last storm we had a large branch broken/fallen down) and of course financial impact are playing all   a factor here. As mentioned previously the tree on it’s own is not an issue, it’s the leaning towards the property.

Apologies for the long post. Again, you valuable advise is very much appreciated on this matter!

[AjiN]

On 28/04/2022 at 14:40, openspaceman said:

No way, it may break a window, a few battens and tiles, maybe a rafter/truss but that's about all.

 

You don't know what trees were next to it before the development that caused it to lean because they are long gone.

 

It doesn't look like there is an sign of soil lifting so , as Khriss says pick a spot about 10ft up facing the house and measure to a known spot on the house then monitor.

 

There's not much scope with doing anything to the tree and the TPO  means you best get used to it being there as once confirmed there is not much you can do.

 

It looks like a Pinus nigra variety, are the needles in pairs?

 

thank you.

Yes - the needles are in pairs. 

 

 

On 28/04/2022 at 14:40, openspaceman said:

 

 

[Joe Newton]

It doesn't look like there's any obvious root heave, which is the only way that tree would suddenly appear to be leaning more prominently than before.

 

It might be that you have to get used to living with the tree. As has been mentioned above the local authority will need a good reason to allow you to take it down.

 

Unfortunately pine species like to harbour dead branches and occasionally drop live ones for fun.

 

If your goal is to have the tree removed your best bet (imo) is to get an individual report on the tree,  explain your concerns and hope the surveyor recommends removal on the grounds of safety, but it's far from a sure thing.

 

Offering to replant a more suitable species could also go in your favour. 

[AjiN]

1 hour ago, Joe Newton said:

It doesn't look like there's any obvious root heave, which is the only way that tree would suddenly appear to be leaning more prominently than before.

 

It might be that you have to get used to living with the tree. As has been mentioned above the local authority will need a good reason to allow you to take it down.

 

Unfortunately pine species like to harbour dead branches and occasionally drop live ones for fun.

 

If your goal is to have the tree removed your best bet (imo) is to get an individual report on the tree,  explain your concerns and hope the surveyor recommends removal on the grounds of safety, but it's far from a sure thing.

 

Offering to replant a more suitable species could also go in your favour. 

Thank you kindly for your advise. 

I would be happy if the tree is managed to a certain extend around the crown if this would help. 

Sorry - we are not bothered about the tree itself at all. Love the variety of birds, squirrels who come and visit and the shade it gives throughout the year. And yes, I'm more than happy to replant more suitable species near the end boundaries of the garden.  

Thanks again!

[Joe Newton]

3 hours ago, AjiN said:

Thank you kindly for your advise. 

I would be happy if the tree is managed to a certain extend around the crown if this would help. 

Sorry - we are not bothered about the tree itself at all. Love the variety of birds, squirrels who come and visit and the shade it gives throughout the year. And yes, I'm more than happy to replant more suitable species near the end boundaries of the garden.  

Thanks again!

Okay, that's good news. The general trend for threads like these is that the homeowner is seeking justification for removal.

 

If that's not the case and you're just looking for piece of mind I'd suggest a survey by a qualified person (an independent survey avoids people suggesting work for their own gain), and then finding a reputable firm to carry out suggested works.

 

Any decent company should be able to do the planning application for you.

[JaySmith]

The lean looks to be historic from the picture. As others have said look for soil cracking and movement around the root plate as this will indicate an issue. Could it be that there may have been other larger trees behind the pine that have encouraged the lean? The crown clean that you mention wouldn’t have prevented the lean, a crown clean is there to remove deadwood, cross rubbing branches (that are providing natural bracing), ivy, foreign objects. 

 

A consideration as with all construction near trees, has there been any damage done to roots and was tree protection measures put in place and adhered to? Obviously the area has been landscaped (laid to lawn) but was any damage done to structural or fiberous roots in the process? The crown of the tree looks to be in good health from the picture supplied so if tree protection measures were put in place then they may have done their job on this occasion. Minor deadwood in pine trees is fairly natural. 
 

You say about asking the developer to have the tree surveyed. As ownership has passed to you I’m not sure they would entertain this. Ultimately if you are concerned about the tree and the consequence should it fail then it may be prudent to get a consultant to assess the tree and provide a report. If they recommend works then this report could be used as supplementary evidence to support the request.