Russia Invades ukraine

[Steven P]

I suspect that Bidens negotiation tactics wasn't rolling over to every Russian demand though, perhaps looking at international treaties and agreements, trying to go with the rule of established law, rather than "That boy is bigger, lets give him all the toys". Perhaps Biden had an awareness of history (and like Trump, when I say Biden I am mostly meaning his advisors), appeasing the aggressor has been shown so so well to bring a lasting peace hasn't it.

[GarethM]

1 minute ago, Steven P said:

I suspect that Bidens negotiation tactics wasn't rolling over to every Russian demand though, perhaps looking at international treaties and agreements, trying to go with the rule of established law, rather than "That boy is bigger, lets give him all the toys". Perhaps Biden had an awareness of history (and like Trump, when I say Biden I am mostly meaning his advisors), appeasing the aggressor has been shown so so well to bring a lasting peace hasn't it.

That's not a delusional rabbit hole you want to start digging, Biden thinks he's bloody Irish and has spent his career filibustering.

[Johnsond]

13 minutes ago, Steven P said:

I suspect that Bidens negotiation tactics wasn't rolling over to every Russian demand though, perhaps looking at international treaties and agreements, trying to go with the rule of established law, rather than "That boy is bigger, lets give him all the toys". Perhaps Biden had an awareness of history (and like Trump, when I say Biden I am mostly meaning his advisors), appeasing the aggressor has been shown so so well to bring a lasting peace hasn't it.

Finland winter war !

[Johnsond]

15 minutes ago, Steven P said:

I suspect that Bidens negotiation tactics wasn't rolling over to every Russian demand though, perhaps looking at international treaties and agreements, trying to go with the rule of established law, rather than "That boy is bigger, lets give him all the toys". Perhaps Biden had an awareness of history (and like Trump, when I say Biden I am mostly meaning his advisors), appeasing the aggressor has been shown so so well to bring a lasting peace hasn't it.

Spend a month in a trench on the front lines and I’d imagine your view on this might change. That’s if your foot could cope. 

Edited February 25 by Johnsond

[Johnsond]

58 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Brokering a peace is one thing, but total capitulation is another. The US is not asking Russia to make a single concession, other than "give up your aim of taking all of Ukraine".

 

If Ukraine were to agree, and Trump got his 'peace' through, Russia would be rolling through a neutered and defenseless Ukraine within 12-36 months, to finish the job. 

 

 

Viable alternatives are??  
You think Putin cares about Russian or Ukrainian casualties?? I’d imagine at some point someone in your family was on the Eastern front J, tactics and ruthless disregard for human life hasn’t changed one bit since then in the Russian mindset. 

[GarethM]

5 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Viable alternatives are??  
You think Putin cares about Russian or Ukrainian casualties?? I’d imagine at some point someone in your family was on the Eastern front J, tactics and ruthless disregard for human life hasn’t changed one bit since then in the Russian mindset. 

Exactly, when you're in a trench or a foxhole getting shot at, mortars falling all around you.

 

You won't give two f's about the rules of war and the Geneva convention.

 

Even your average school kids played cod and alike to know it's not tea/biscuits and an array of sexy camo outfits.

[Steven P]

48 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Exactly, when you're in a trench or a foxhole getting shot at, mortars falling all around you.

 

On both sides the ones being shot at don't care for the morals. They just wish that they are not being shot at any more, thanks. However they are not the ones who can broker a peace deal - and one that will last. So in todays discussion about who, why and when politics will stop the killing they are an irrelevance really.

 

I think for the US involvement the choice is:

"Roll over and accept the aggressor, his war crimes"

or

"Try to do the right thing"

 

I think we call all see that Trump is firmly in the camp of rolling over, let Putin tickle his tummy and say "what a good boy". I think this is a step change from Biden who was looking at the 2nd option.

 

The rest of the world also appear to be siding on the do the right thing. Apart from Putin, his allies and puppets of course.

 

 

 

EDIT

Not sure if Biden thinking he is Irish, American or even Martian has any bearing on his morals.

Edited February 25 by Steven P

[GarethM]

2 minutes ago, Steven P said:

On both sides the ones being shot at don't care for the morals. They just wish that they are not being shot at any more, thanks. However they are not the ones who can broker a peace deal - and one that will last. So in todays discussion about who, why and when politics will stop the killing they are an irrelevance really.

 

I think for the US involvement the choice is:

"Roll over and accept the aggressor, his war crimes"

or

"Try to do the right thing"

 

I think we call all see that Trump is firmly in the camp of rolling over, let Putin tickle his tummy and say "what a good boy". I think this is a step change from Biden who was looking at the 2nd option.

 

The rest of the world also appear to be siding on the do the right thing. Apart from Putin, his allies and puppets of course.

 

EDIT

Not sure if Biden thinking he is Irish, American or even Martian has any bearing on his morals.

Roll over my arse, Biden didn't know how to put on a pair or trousers let alone negotiate.

 

You're trump derangement syndrome is flaring up 

[GarethM]

So let's brass track it.

 

You want us to keep giving Ukraine a blank cheque for effectively forever.

 

Putin will not just pack up and go home, even with your European leaders help, they are out gunned and out matched by the Russians.

 

So Mr president Steven P what you going to do!.

[Steven P]

6 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Roll over my arse, Biden didn't know how to put on a pair or trousers let alone negotiate.

 

You're trump derangement syndrome is flaring up 

 

Ahh you are going back to type and your argument "this guy is bad, but that guy is more badr" when the more bad guy is also an irrelevance in the current discussion. It isn't a discussion that works really.

 

For all his Faults, whether he can put on a pair of trousers or not, Biden didn't phone Putin up and ask "What do you want to stop the war? No concessions? sure, we can do that"