Rebated duty fuel ----RED DIESEL----

[18 stoner]

This is what bugs me about it, these are the guys who are supposed to know the ins and outs, and after all, we are just trying to do what we can within the law, but this type of inconsistancy leaves us wondering.

 

No wonder some try and bend the rules and claim naivety

[treequip]

TBH I would be interested to know if anyone has been done/or knows someone for using red in mogs,chippers stump grinders etc.

 

I know several people who have been fined for using red in tractors (3 of them within the last 6 months) and some that have had vehicles impounded (and subsequently returned) pending an assessment of duty.

 

You can’t be prosecuted for using red in a chipper or stump grinder.

[arc]

TBH I would be interested to know if anyone has been done/or knows someone for using red in mogs,chippers stump grinders etc.

 

I have, twice, for using it in mogs.

We got a fine and an invoice for the back duty. If the guy or gal who stops you doesn't know the rules, they will simply find out.

I've been told if we are found using red in the future the vehicles in question will be confiscated.

 

Needless to say, they now run on derv.

[Quickthorn]

and some that have had vehicles impounded (and subsequently returned) pending an assessment of duty.

 

 

This is the bit that would worry me. They can impound your kit while they decide what to do with you, which can take months. They may decide to do nothing, and return your kit, but you'll get a bill from the storage company where your stuff was impounded, and this could run into thousands.

[renewablejohn]

Anyone knows what the rules are for kerosene as my chinese tractor was designed to run on kerosene.

[tommer9]

There is a large veg company down here who have just been heavily fined for running tractors pulling cauliflower rigs using red diesel, and now all their tractors run on DERV. It nearly crippled them. There are also so many exemptions and lopholes and what have you that it will always be a grey area. There is talk of scrapping the whole red diesel thing and everyone run on white and farmers etc claiming rebate at the end of the year. That WOULD remove any grey areas. I mentioned the chipper running on DERV thing, as a tree surgeon i was climbing for last year had been stopped while working on the road and told that his chipper should be on white while on the highway!! It was misinformation as the chipper is clearly plant, and plant is exempt.

[Tom D]

This reminds me of the parking situation in Edinburgh: to get a parking suspension of a permit holders bay costs £40, to pay the fine on a ticket costs£30!!

 

I run chipper and small tractor on red, and will continue to do so untill I get caught and told otherwise. the amount you save running a mog or big tractor on red will pay for some serious fines should you get caught, its a no brainer. Also I was on a biulding site the other day, they had a fuel tank on site full of red for the 360's! how does that work??

 

TBH i think this is really unfair, as people who live out in the sticks are far less likely to get caught than those in other parts of the country.

[tommer9]

Also I was on a biulding site the other day, they had a fuel tank on site full of red for the 360's! how does that work??

 

TBH i think this is really unfair, as people who live out in the sticks are far less likely to get caught than those in other parts of the country.

 

Swing shovels are plant Tom, and are exempt.

 

Those of us who live in the sticks arent THAT ess likely to get caught, and we pay in other ways, like the anount of fuel we waste just getting anywhere. I put and used nearly £90 in my landy yesterday...

[b101uk]

I mentioned the chipper running on DERV thing, as a tree surgeon i was climbing for last year had been stopped while working on the road and told that his chipper should be on white while on the highway!! It was misinformation as the chipper is clearly plant, and plant is exempt.

 

Tracked/wheeled self-propelled chippers/stump grinders on the road would be plant IF it were taxed as such and displayed number plates along with a tax disk and had valid vehicular insurance for use on the public road!

 

If its not registered as a plant machine with the DVLA and not taxed or insured BUT is on the public road it is then there totally illegally and as such given it is there illegally would need to be on DERV given its NOT proven that its plant by way of DVLA registration.

 

HMRC Notice 75

 

“8.2 Unlicensed vehicles not used on public roads

A vehicle that is not used on the public road and has no licence under the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 is an excepted vehicle. If a vehicle has become untaxed since 31 January 1998 it requires a Statutory Off-Road Notification (SORN). Such vehicles will be eligible to use red diesel if a SORN declaration has been made. Unlicensed vehicles that do not require a SORN will continue to be able to use red diesel without a SORN declaration if kept off-road.

 

Unlicensed vehicles are not permitted to run on public roads under any circumstances. HMRC will take legal action if such a vehicle is found on public roads using red diesel. Other offences beyond the scope of HMRC responsibility may also be committed if such a vehicle runs on public roads, even if road fuel (‘white diesel’) is being used”

[treequip]

This reminds me of the parking situation in Edinburgh: to get a parking suspension of a permit holders bay costs £40, to pay the fine on a ticket costs£30!!

 

I run chipper and small tractor on red, and will continue to do so untill I get caught and told otherwise. the amount you save running a mog or big tractor on red will pay for some serious fines should you get caught, its a no brainer. Also I was on a biulding site the other day, they had a fuel tank on site full of red for the 360's! how does that work??

 

TBH i think this is really unfair, as people who live out in the sticks are far less likely to get caught than those in other parts of the country.

 

The chipper is plant and can run on red. The tractor can run on red as long as you aren’t hauling goods for hire or reward on the highway.

 

It’s a no brainer until you get caught and realise you can’t dodge HMRC. They have a lot more powers than most people realise. If they are so minded HMRC can impound the vehicle and assess how much red they think you have used. You get to pay the difference in duty, or they sell your kit at auction for a pittance, deduct that from what they told you, you owe and run you through the courts for the balance. They will come after every asset you own and will have the shirt off your back after they have taken your house. Ask Piggot, it cost him his OBE and a year in pokey, as well as having to pay back what he owed.

 

The tank on site for plant is legit, there probably isn’t a reasonable sized site in the land without one the 360’s and other machines are plant and can use red as long as they aren’t on the road.

 

I live in the sticks and HMRC targeted people they thought were using red through their advertising. They just turn up at your premises and start dipping. Your supplier is obliged to keep records of how much red they have supplied and who to. As an end user it is wise (but not mandatory) to keep a record of how you have disposed of the red you bought.