Future Firewood Demand Optimism?

[Woodworks]

1 hour ago, Billhook said:

Some years ago we used this icynene foam which has been  fantastic, no chemical smells as it is water based and it breathes like a sponge allowing wood to breathe whilst stopping draughts

 

Often wondered if we should of used this on our place but was unaware of it at the time. Seams a good system and very good at making things airtight which can have a big impact on heat loss.

 

We used a multifoil insulation which was was an easy DIY job but a bit controversial in some circles.  

[trigger_andy]

Some years ago we used this icynene foam which has been  fantastic, no chemical smells as it is water based and it breathes like a sponge allowing wood to breathe whilst stopping draughts
 

Did you buy the kits you can do yourself or get a company in?

[Billhook]

We had the foam done in 2009 and it shows no signs of deteriorating 12 years later

i wrote a testimonial for the firm who have now gone back to Ireland I believe but I was amazed at the deterioration of the fibreglass as I pulled it out apart from it being useless in high winds

 

I was looking for a better type of insulation for the locked pantile roof of my house, which was constructed in 1983.  In those days the eaves had to be vented with soffit vents.  The roof is a 30 degree pitch gabled half dormer.  It has a false ceiling which makes a small attic space above the bedrooms.  Before the plasterboard was put on the five inch deep rafters the space was filled with glass fibre wool and the ceiling was covered with the same material but to a depth of over eight inches.

On still cold days all this worked well and after a fall of snow, the snow did not melt on the roof for some days.  

However all this changed with a cold wind, especially from the East, when it would be forced up the soffit vents and find its way under the fibreglass causing the ceilings of the bedrooms to be freezing cold.  It also found its way under the floor of one bedroom, and was so bad sometimes that it would lift the carpet.  The cold air would find its way in through any crack however tiny.  It is a very exposed site and a good test for effective insulation and draught proofing.

A friend had his slate roof covered with polyurethane closed cell foam and was pleased with the result.  I had some quotes from similar people but they all said the ceilings would need to be taken down to expose the rafters at vast inconvenience and cost.

Airseal was a company I found on the web having watched impressive demonstrations of Icynene on ‘Youtube’.   The foam was interesting because it was open cell which breathed, it was inert and smelt of nothing, and it would not catch fire when I held an open flame to it. 

The main advantage had to be Airseal’s promise that it could be fired down the ten foot long cavity between the plasterboard and the felt and completely fill the space down to the eaves without disturbing the felt, tiles or plasterboard.

I hooked out all the old fibreglass, a job so vile that I felt I could not ask anyone else to do it.  I used drain rods and bent the corkscrew end into the shape of an anchor, which was very effective.  A six ton farm trailer was filled volumetrically with the stuff.  Interestingly, when I pulled out complete lengths of fibreglass from the eaves, the last couple of feet were black with mould.  This presumably had formed as a result of moist air entering the vented soffits.  Hopefully the Icynene foam would stop this happening, but still allow the timbers to breathe.

We had an initial trial of the Icynene foam with the builders lifting up the bottom layer of tiles to see if the foam had reached the eaves when fired from above.  The result was most impressive and it was an easy decision to continue with the rest of the roof.

The job took two days and would only have taken a day had it not been for the ceilings being enclosed.  Simon and Karl were very enthusiastic about the product and did a good job, Simon Walker having been sent to Canada to be trained.

The weather has been very windy and cold since the job was completed, but our house feels completely different. The product feels benign. It is quieter and warmer.  So much so that when the builders came back to do some more work they had to open the windows because it was too hot to work.  They could not believe the difference

We are so impressed with it that we are planning to have some more applied on the garage loft.

 

[renewablejohn]

4 hours ago, sime42 said:

6 hours ago, Billhook said:

Some years ago we used this icynene foam which has been  fantastic, no chemical smells as it is water based and it breathes like a sponge allowing wood to breathe whilst stopping draughts
 

That's food for thought, thanks. It looks good but the permanence of the stuff would make me uneasy.

Every right to be uneasy about it. Farmers have been using this foam for insulating chicken sheds for years. Its only now that the true cost of using the foam is becoming apparent. The structurally sound looking roof trusses had turned to dust with no structural strength whatsoever. I would personally not touch this with a barge pole.

[Stere]

Why would this foam make the trusses turn to dust?

 

Hold moisture?

Edited April 7, 2022 by Stere

[renewablejohn]

14 minutes ago, Stere said:

Why would this foam make the trusses turn to dust?

 

Hold moisture?

No idea but the cell structure of the timber had totally changed to a powder like you can get with dry rot.

[Billhook]

5 hours ago, renewablejohn said:

Every right to be uneasy about it. Farmers have been using this foam for insulating chicken sheds for years. Its only now that the true cost of using the foam is becoming apparent. The structurally sound looking roof trusses had turned to dust with no structural strength whatsoever. I would personally not touch this with a barge pole.

Was it icynene open cell or chemical closed cell foam?

We used closed cell on our refrigerated store years ago before icynene was on the market and can quite understand how it might cause problems by  making the wood sweat.  Our store seems to be ok but we do not keep chickens in it.  It was done in the 1970s.

All I can go on is our experience from 2009 with icynene  and I feel fairly  sure that if there was a problem with icynene then we would have seen it by now after twelve years of severe weather up here on an exposed hill top.

[trigger_andy]

Well I’ve just bought a used 26k Boiler Stove and a 300 litre Thermal Store system. He’s getting a Heat Pump system with RHI payments instead.

I better get cracking with the Firewood as I’ll have 47kw worth of Stoves in the house by the end of the Summer.

[Billhook]

19 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Well I’ve just bought a used 26k Boiler Stove and a 300 litre Thermal Store system. He’s getting a Heat Pump system with RHI payments instead.

I better get cracking with the Firewood as I’ll have 47kw worth of Stoves in the house by the end of the Summer.

Good man Andy, may the Force be with you!

[trigger_andy]

4 minutes ago, Billhook said:

Good man Andy, may the Force be with you!

Might need to upgrade my log delivery system. I was thinking a treadmill directly into the stove itself. 😁