re - nesting birds

[Slad]

On 21/07/2021 at 10:04, Gimlet said:

There's a lot more heat than light in this thread. So you're an unscrupulous keeper wanting to get rid of an inconvenient Goshawk nest and the only solution that occurs to you is to cut the whole tree down. Really...? 

That's discreet isn't it. No one will notice.. I suppose when not felling his own woodland to get rid of a birds nest he's digging up badger setts with a JCB. And I dare say if annoyed by a fly buzzing against the window pane in his living room, his natural instinct would be to take a shotgun to it.

 

No mention of the big brother reaction from RSPB placing the whole estate under camera surveillance. When did the RSPB become arbiter and enforcer of wildlife law? The last time I looked they were a charity with no right to enter and place cameras on private property. And who polices their innumerable cock-ups and acts of vandalism carried out in the blind pursuit of a political agenda?

 

I have two nests on my land.  The first nest was evacuated and I spotted spur marks going up the tree, so nothing good had happened there.  The Raptor club people said it was unusual for people to take eggs now, so I am guessing the climb was not to ring birds but probably just their necks.  People usually shoot the nest with a shotgun according to them, but with me/neighbours so close, this charmer went for a more direct approach.  

 

They or some others moved to a second nest.  Birds fledged and the adults, as said above, are sharp eyed and noisy; if you go to have a look, you have to go quietly otherwise there is a warning cry and the chicks duck down and the parents try and lead you off by calling and flying in large circles.

 

Then it all went quiet.  Then a young fledgling started flying around crying and making a lot of noise.  It's done so for about 2 weeks.  I checked the nest; gaff marks up the side. Parents and other chick gone.

 

When we first found out about the goshawks, I phoned the local Raptor club up.  They were really keen to know where they are, to come and ring them and do whatever else makes them happy.  But when I asked about protecting the second nest, they were completely bl**dy useless. Nothing.   So I'm doing my CS38/2013, I'll be getting a license to disturb and I will be putting up cameras - and not some academic with a spreadsheet to fill.  As sort of pointed out above, I don't want other people with constant video coverage of my land thanks.

 

I'm on the verge of a rant - so I'll continue.  (Get some popcorn folks)

 

I ask if there is anything I can do to protect them.  "Sure, cease all operations within 450m".  Question to the floor: how big is your garden?!  450m covers our place, an agricultural yard, a number of paddocks and fields, 5 public footpaths, about 12 neighbours, three busy roads and a pub.  And as soon as I tell any of them about the nest, in theory they can all be done if they 'recklessly' do what they normally do, or in other words disturb the nest.  Bearing in mind the goshawks were happy to nest there "as is" (and in places like Germany, they are an urban bird).   

 

The point of this venting is that if people who are masters of their own window box, but nothing else, invoke laws affecting people who have actual land, they need to be sensitive to the unintended consequences.  I stopped work immediately on our land and have done what I can to protect the nests, despite the fact it has set me back by 4 months.  I've kept quiet so that the birds don't get more enemies amongst the locals. But despite that, it looks like someone has taken the law into their own hands because of the risk the birds will affect them (be it on their shoots, their businesses etc) or because they just want eggs/birds- and those who profess an academic interest in the birds appear unwilling and unable to do anything to assist, but are happy to turn the landowner and all living close by against the birds by spouting pointless restrictions better suited to the Scottish wilderness.

 

I feel better for that. I'll feel even better when I catch the b*stards climbing my trees next year.  

 

Rant over.  

 

 

 

 

[devon TWiG]

Slad .....I have had Goshawks nesting in land adjacent to mine ( FC guidance is a 400m radius zone of no forestry operations ) in early nesting period  from Feb - Aug ( distance reduced) which is very , very inconvenient to say the least to landowners !!  I think it would be very difficult in law to prove reckless / intentional disturbance if you carry out actions which you do all year round anyway which are classed as background noise ( they do not expect roads to be closed , or people to not use footpaths etc )  in reality the birds really belong in remote areas but the problems arise when they nest closer to human activity and there are very zealous birdspotters who seem to not care about owners rights , just the law to their beloved birds which may in effect backfire on them as very few land owners would want such restriction imposed upon them every year they nest !!

[Patrick goulding]

On 25/07/2021 at 13:36, Slad said:

I have two nests on my land.  The first nest was evacuated and I spotted spur marks going up the tree, so nothing good had happened there.  The Raptor club people said it was unusual for people to take eggs now, so I am guessing the climb was not to ring birds but probably just their necks.  People usually shoot the nest with a shotgun according to them, but with me/neighbours so close, this charmer went for a more direct approach.  

 

They or some others moved to a second nest.  Birds fledged and the adults, as said above, are sharp eyed and noisy; if you go to have a look, you have to go quietly otherwise there is a warning cry and the chicks duck down and the parents try and lead you off by calling and flying in large circles.

 

Then it all went quiet.  Then a young fledgling started flying around crying and making a lot of noise.  It's done so for about 2 weeks.  I checked the nest; gaff marks up the side. Parents and other chick gone.

 

When we first found out about the goshawks, I phoned the local Raptor club up.  They were really keen to know where they are, to come and ring them and do whatever else makes them happy.  But when I asked about protecting the second nest, they were completely bl**dy useless. Nothing.   So I'm doing my CS38/2013, I'll be getting a license to disturb and I will be putting up cameras - and not some academic with a spreadsheet to fill.  As sort of pointed out above, I don't want other people with constant video coverage of my land thanks.

 

I'm on the verge of a rant - so I'll continue.  (Get some popcorn folks)

 

I ask if there is anything I can do to protect them.  "Sure, cease all operations within 450m".  Question to the floor: how big is your garden?!  450m covers our place, an agricultural yard, a number of paddocks and fields, 5 public footpaths, about 12 neighbours, three busy roads and a pub.  And as soon as I tell any of them about the nest, in theory they can all be done if they 'recklessly' do what they normally do, or in other words disturb the nest.  Bearing in mind the goshawks were happy to nest there "as is" (and in places like Germany, they are an urban bird).   

 

The point of this venting is that if people who are masters of their own window box, but nothing else, invoke laws affecting people who have actual land, they need to be sensitive to the unintended consequences.  I stopped work immediately on our land and have done what I can to protect the nests, despite the fact it has set me back by 4 months.  I've kept quiet so that the birds don't get more enemies amongst the locals. But despite that, it looks like someone has taken the law into their own hands because of the risk the birds will affect them (be it on their shoots, their businesses etc) or because they just want eggs/birds- and those who profess an academic interest in the birds appear unwilling and unable to do anything to assist, but are happy to turn the landowner and all living close by against the birds by spouting pointless restrictions better suited to the Scottish wilderness.

 

I feel better for that. I'll feel even better when I catch the b*stards climbing my trees next year.  

 

Rant over.  

 

 

 

It’s not somebody coming and stealing the birds? I’m guessing there is a black market for rare birds of prey   You here about bird collectors and ppl collecting eggs 🥚 

 

[Slad]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:08, devon TWiG said:

 I think it would be very difficult in law to prove reckless / intentional disturbance if you carry out actions which you do all year round anyway which are classed as background noise 

Good point and thanks.   Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to look after them and I'm fuming that someone has trespassed and done them in, but being able to do at least some work in the Summer would be helpful.  

[devon TWiG]

it is also quite likely they will nest in the same place each year unless significant change to woodland .  Were they nesting in mature Douglas firs ?  if so not just anyone can /will climb such a tree so it could be likely that they were experienced at this , another site near me had chicks stolen as I believe they are a desired species by hawkers etc ...

[Slad]

1 hour ago, devon TWiG said:

it is also quite likely they will nest in the same place each year unless significant change to woodland .  Were they nesting in mature Douglas firs ?  if so not just anyone can /will climb such a tree so it could be likely that they were experienced at this , another site near me had chicks stolen as I believe they are a desired species by hawkers etc ...

Yes, mature trees and both climbed.  You're right;  they are very big and plenty of branches to make things interesting.  

 

Anyone got any ideas how to make the climb more difficult?  

[Patrick goulding]

Barb wire round trunk maybe seen that done in our local woods  to protect tawny owl nest boxes. They was in yew trees. I suppose if you still wanted to get up you would spur up and cut the wire off though  or climb across from another tree or they probably would use ladders. If they have got the cheek to be there with out permission nothing would surprise me. 

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, Patrick goulding said:

I’m guessing there is a black market for rare birds of prey  

There probably is but a back when DNA testing was in its infancy one of my customer's daughter was establishing a database of the DNA of every licensed bird just to thwart any attempt to pass off a wild bird or its progeny as legally owned.

[Patrick goulding]

3 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

There probably is but a back when DNA testing was in its infancy one of my customer's daughter was establishing a database of the DNA of every licensed bird just to thwart any attempt to pass off a wild bird or its progeny as legally owned.

It’s been going about a while hasn’t it this dna testing? Still be a lot getting away with it you only have to look at the drug dealers and things what get away with it. I should imagine they take them and cross breed them or pair them to legit birds same as the eggs how could you tell from a egg can you still check 🧬 

[openspaceman]

47 minutes ago, Patrick goulding said:

It’s been going about a while hasn’t it this dna testing? Still be a lot getting away with it you only have to look at the drug dealers and things what get away with it. I should imagine they take them and cross breed them or pair them to legit birds same as the eggs how could you tell from a egg can you still check 🧬 

Well to be legitimate the egg, and hence chick, would have DNA of both parents, if a non licensed bird was one parent it would show up as unknown DNA.

 

First use of DNA profiling in a paternity case was about 1985.