Poll on two rope technique.

[Paddy1000111]

22 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

 

 Kevin and Paddy its not an H&S get out or slippery side step, we merely get a signed contract from our climbers clearly stating they will not use SRT.

I am not condoning or condemning SRT, perhaps climbing certification should clearly indicate which method a climber has been trained or retrained in.

 

Bob

 

I'd call that a ban rather than a disclaimer then? I know the utilities company by me is designing an SRT training course for their climbers as currently one doesn't exist. I was told I can do the nptc assesments on srt if I wanted though. 

 

I genuinely wonder where the line is drawn. If you do your training with a hitch climber can you use a zigzag? What about a petzl ID? If you did it with a prussic can you use a hitch climber? I can't find anything about what techniques you can and can't use, just that you've been appropriately trained, the nptc course doesnt cover SRT on paper but if the instructor (who climbed SRT for the course) teaches you for half a day on srt does that cover you? 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

29 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

 

 Kevin and Paddy its not an H&S get out or slippery side step, we merely get a signed contract from our climbers clearly stating they will not use SRT.

I am not condoning or condemning SRT, perhaps climbing certification should clearly indicate which method a climber has been trained or retrained in.

 

Bob

 

I may have misinterpreted your point Bob. 
 

I guess an employer / prime contractor can specify the means or technique employees must adopt in the exercise of their duties - esp if those techniques read through the relevant RAs. 
 

Different if an employer had prior knowledge of a potentially non compliant practice and sought to absolve them self of responsibility through a disclaimer.  That wouldn’t be kosher. 

[skyhuck]

19 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

I'd call that a ban rather than a disclaimer then? I know the utilities company by me is designing an SRT training course for their climbers as currently one doesn't exist. I was told I can do the nptc assesments on srt if I wanted though. 

 

I genuinely wonder where the line is drawn. If you do your training with a hitch climber can you use a zigzag? What about a petzl ID? If you did it with a prussic can you use a hitch climber? I can't find anything about what techniques you can and can't use, just that you've been appropriately trained, the nptc course doesnt cover SRT on paper but if the instructor (who climbed SRT for the course) teaches you for half a day on srt does that cover you? 

What if you were never trained, just self taught and then assessed?

[Paddy1000111]

4 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

What if you were never trained, just self taught and then assessed?

Well this is what I mean, you don't necessarily have to be trained, just proved competent. Currently there's no such thing as a nptc SRT course so how do you prove competence? Reading the manuals that came with your climbing kit?

 

SRT is just a different method, your still tying the same knots, doing the same thing, just the rope layout has changed. How do you prove competency? 

[skyhuck]

Anecdotally I hear that a lot of climbing accidents involve the climber felling the portion of the tree they are anchored too, surely two main lines doubles the chance of this.

[Mick Dempsey]

Like Dave says, anecdotally, I have heard a lot of falling out of trees is down to larger companies in the sector and utility firms pushing just trained youngsters up trees they’re not experienced enough to do. 

[Paddy1000111]

16 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

Anecdotally I hear that a lot of climbing accidents involve the climber felling the portion of the tree they are anchored too, surely two main lines doubles the chance of this.

Have a look at that AA report I posted a page or so back, most of the falls were caused by improperly tied knots, no end stop knot, clip in failure or cutting the rope with a chainsaw. 

 

Theoretically with two anchors, if you cut the bit you're anchored to if you had both anchors on that bit then you're going down just like if you only had one anchor. If you have 2 separate anchors and you cut the bit one anchor is on then the other anchor might hold you and the bit you cut off depending on what you chose as an anchor. Then you can cut that line free. 

https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Latest-News/HSE-Fall-from-Height-Incidents-involving-arborists

Edited February 6, 2021 by Paddy1000111

[skyhuck]

3 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

If you have 2 separate anchors and you cut the bit one anchor is on then the other anchor might hold you and the bit you cut off depending on what you chose as an anchor. Then you can cut that line free. 

https://www.trees.org.uk/News-Blog/Latest-News/HSE-Fall-from-Height-Incidents-involving-arborists

What if the bit they cut weights over a tonne?

[Paddy1000111]

2 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

What if the bit they cut weights over a tonne?

Like you said, the lines can take ~ 2.6tonnes. depend how strong the anchor is... If you have them clipped into the same ring/bridge you might be in for a rough ride but I'd rather have a rough ride and cut a limb free than get accelerated towards the ground by 1 tonne of wood and fall 50ft 

[skyhuck]

1 minute ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Like you said, the lines can take ~ 2.6tonnes. depend how strong the anchor is... If you have them clipped into the same ring/bridge you might be in for a rough ride but I'd rather have a rough ride and cut a limb free than get accelerated towards the ground by 1 tonne of wood and fall 50ft 

I'd sooner do nether....