Felling Rotten / Hollow trees

[openspaceman]

9 minutes ago, Moose McAlpine said:

 

Is that what they refer to as a "Dutchman"?

I'm sorry but I don't know

[drinksloe]

With hard woods i generally always expect hinges to snap to some degree, they don't hold anything like most soft woods esp with wieght or lean on it.

 

Oak are better than most even dead, I'd rather fell a dead oak than a live sycamore at times.

Even with a winch esp a hand winch/tirfor I had a few near 1s with sycmore even with a tirfor on them.

I find they often go exactly how u want them to when u winch but when gravity takes over the hinge often snaps and if any side wieght it will go off at a tangent to felling direction.

Different with a tractor winch it can keep the tension on but with a tirfor u just can't keep pump tirfor fast enough.

Now I usually put a 2nd hand winch on to take the side wieght off and main winch roughly in direction of fall.

If only using the 1 winch it can't be straight in direction of fall needs to take some of side pressure as well 

 

Edit I see open Spaceman mentioned this on the last page to but better described.

 

I often work alone in the wood around my house with a lot off sycamore so tend to work with a snatch bock out in front and attach my tirfor to a tree either to the side or behind the tree I am cutting.

It does double the power but it also makes it harder to keep up when it starts to go.

The reason I do it as it means I can work the winch and safely go back to the tree I'm cutting to fine tune hinge, winch a bit cut a bit  and vice versa, .

On smaller trees seen me grab rope and just run with it sometimes enough to just keep it going where u want as winch has done the hard work already.

 

Dunno how many trees u have to fell, but u might be worth felling some of the easy ones just to get a feel for it.

If there going to blow down anyway.

Trees go wrong if cut enough, but ur better to make mistakes out where it doesn't matter, if ur on a safety critical tree and it goes wrong u have a problem.

Edited November 27, 2020 by drinksloe

[Dan Maynard]

 
Is that what they refer to as a "Dutchman"?

No, Dutchman is where cuts don't line up one end of the gob so effectively the horizontal cut is a bit deep.

[drinksloe]

9 hours ago, Moose McAlpine said:

 

Is that what they refer to as a "Dutchman"?

 

I think it used to be called a pie cut. Probably other names too

 

A Dutchman u sever or severely weaken the hinge on 1 side 

U'd sever the pointy side of triangle.

 

 

Really any off these cuts only truely work when u expect 1 side off the hinge to hold, esp when under real tension, so more in certain softwoods and possibly even certain times of year, when sap in stem.

Definately not cuts to try in dead trees or some/many hardwoods or any tree with targets nearby.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by drinksloe

[Moose McAlpine]

1 hour ago, Dan Maynard said:

9 hours ago, Moose McAlpine said:

 
Is that what they refer to as a "Dutchman"?

No, Dutchman is where cuts don't line up one end of the gob so effectively the horizontal cut is a bit deep.

 

8 minutes ago, drinksloe said:

A Dutchman u sever or severely weaken the hinge on 1 side 

U'd sever the pointy side of triangle.

 

I see.

 

Am i right in thinking its purpose is to fell a tree away from its lean? If so, how does that particular cut work to do that?

 

I've done a couple fells against leans, but only with winching.

[drinksloe]

I'll be honest I've never had the courage to try a proper Dutchman so I'm probably not the best person to describe it.

Had plenty opportunities in timber that would work but bottle it as always a fence to damage or it would get hung up on other trees if went wrong

 

I just either wedge or nowadays jack them over atleast u know that way u have full control and it shouldn't go wrong.

Jacking is the way forward if u can't get a skidder/winch in, can lift over some big ugly leaning trees, but again more with softwoods as u need hinge to hold

 

Try googling them, a few different types 

Sort of banned in a lot of USA states, And i dare say most foresters here would kick u off site for using them too.

I think work well when work but when they don't it just all goes proper Pete tong 

 

Really a quite advanced cut that u will have to judge the situation well beforehand. A,mount of lean/wieght tree species etc.

 

Don't imagine it would work in dead trees/oaks.

[Stubby]

3 hours ago, drinksloe said:

I'll be honest I've never had the courage to try a proper Dutchman so I'm probably not the best person to describe it.

Had plenty opportunities in timber that would work but bottle it as always a fence to damage or it would get hung up on other trees if went wrong

 

I just either wedge or nowadays jack them over atleast u know that way u have full control and it shouldn't go wrong.

Jacking is the way forward if u can't get a skidder/winch in, can lift over some big ugly leaning trees, but again more with softwoods as u need hinge to hold

 

Try googling them, a few different types 

Sort of banned in a lot of USA states, And i dare say most foresters here would kick u off site for using them too.

I think work well when work but when they don't it just all goes proper Pete tong 

 

Really a quite advanced cut that u will have to judge the situation well beforehand. A,mount of lean/wieght tree species etc.

 

Don't imagine it would work in dead trees/oaks.

I tried a " soft dutch man " on a tree that it would not matter were it went . It kinda worked . It made it swing around a few degrees ( supposedly 180 degrees )  before it fell to miss an imaginary target .

[drinksloe]

I've always meant to have a wee play like that stubby and will do sometime.

 

But when ever u get trees u can fell any direction I usually take the easy option and just fell the way they want to go/ or with wind.

Usually under pressure to get more down so never make the time to have a play.

But I will sometime

 

In forestry u do have to wedge/jack/winch a lot off trees against wieght, if the Dutchman was so successful and safe everyone would be using them quite often.

 

I take it ur not that impressed with the cut then stubby???

Edited November 28, 2020 by drinksloe

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

I tried a " soft dutch man " on a tree that it would not matter were it went . It kinda worked . It made it swing around a few degrees ( supposedly 180 degrees )  before it fell to miss an imaginary target .

Any chance of an explanation of how a soft and normal ones are done? It'll be a first for me. Pictures would help.

[drinksloe]

Try searching the history on here I think there has been threads on it before.

Or try googling it.

I'll be honest not the easiest thing to explain, even some of the videos of it aren't that clear.

Also I think some folk call it that but then do something different.

And I can never make out just how much the tree was leaning in the 1st place.