4week traing

[SamanthaSunny]

13 hours ago, AHPP said:

Samantha. You're an old woman wanting to break into a profession dominated (for largely good reason) by young men. It's very competitive, most people make shit money and many people hate it after a while. You're at a further disadvantage being on an island with limited employers. Then consider we live in interesting economic times where bold career moves are risky, especially ones with significant money outlay for training that you might need to use to buy food with in the coming months. And as if all that didn't make for a steep enough hill to climb already, you're annoying, closing yet more doors.

Now anything's possible of course and you may delight in proving me and the world wrong but you're starting at several large disadvantages. I'd ordinarily not care what you try to do but in this instance I must strongly encourage you to not give money to the absolute wasters who constitute the majority of the training industry in this country. Their undeserved dominance is making the industry shitter for the rest of us and I want them starved.

Well I am so glad I went for my run last night and did not have to go to bed with your post on my mind. Whilst I agree completely with your opinion I am drawn to the life of a tree surgeon. I still have 25 years before I retire so I am choosing to at least try this career and if I am not pulling my weight I will stop because the thought of anyone having to work harder because of me would force my decision to leave out of respect for others. There are tree surgeons out there working now at my age so what is different about me ? And I HAVE to buy my way in because I have no choice. I have contacted most of the tree surgeon businesses and before I even told them my age in the emails that followed they said they are not currently taking anyone on. As you pointed out I do have a good job and will be using my holiday up to do my tickets. I would not leave unless I either found someone who would employ me on a trial basis or If that does not happen then I will stay in my current role and work privately on weekends to seek out customers then employ a tree surgeon I can learn from giving them 90 percent of the money. We all have to start somewhere and we don’t all have the luxury of knowing what we want at a young age. I have no desire to argue with you and I certainly won’t delight in proving you wrong or right as I value all opinions including yours however sharply spoken. 
kindest regards Samantha 

[openspaceman]

36 minutes ago, Samantha48 said:

As you pointed out I do have a good job and will be using my holiday up to do my tickets. I would not leave unless I either found someone who would employ me on a trial basis or If that does not happen then I will stay in my current role and work privately on weekends

is your council so inflexible they couldn't allow you to be seconded to the parks department for a while?

[Khriss]

On 14/11/2020 at 11:09, Khriss said:

My biggest concern after 30+ yrs on the saws n ropes is mentorship, the  right company will have you streaking away, gaining cash and skill as you go, the wrong company will have you bogged down in tedious rubbish jobs. Whilst yr energy and enthusiasm are at a peak- that is the time to get everything gathered  together. K

@openspaceman      that, old man  ?, parks outfit? Nooooooo . K

[Khriss]

(  pincering up needles n dog poo   ? ) 

[Paddy1000111]

11 minutes ago, Samantha48 said:

Paddy Thankyou for defending the older generation wishing to start a new career in tree surgery ? you may have an onslaught of negative responses sorry. However if it works out for me the great and if it doesn’t then At least I tried. I have to work another 25 years before I can retire and I need a challenge and by the sounds of it it will be just that. Obviously no one my age must be tree surgeons  !!!!! Looks like I have my first spiteful response ? thank goodness for positive forward thinkers like you x

Do what makes you happy Sam, that's all that really matters. If you know what you're doing with business you can make good money. If you don't know what you're doing with business then you will still easily be able to make enough money to cover your bills. In every industry you will get people who hate it and tell you everything is s*** and you won't make any money and you are making a massive mistake, if you look around the corner you will find massive success stories and people who make good money. In the aircraft world you could work for a company and earn £23k, yet there are guys who work for themselves who have the same training/qualifications but have a business head, they do the same work and earn over 80k and nearly no tax so don't pay any attention to it.

Someone I know got a tree surgeon in to fell a tree for them, the property owner said they would do all the cleanup and disassembly so the guy turned up, felled the tree and walked away. He was there for less than an hour and charged £200, the property owner was amazed at how cheap of a deal that was. If you can't make money in this industry then you are definitely doing something wrong. 

 

Like I said though, do what makes you happy. I look at people who work in London at desk jobs. They slog into work on overcrowded trains in the dark every day and spend all their life in the office. They work every hour under the sun including weekends sucking up to bosses and doing exactly what everyone tells them to do so they get promoted. You live in central london, you get up at 5:30/6am to get the tube into work for your 7am start, you leave your small flat, tripping over the pram left in your shared hallway because your neighbours suck. You've battelled through the angry faces and you're on a packed train with a load of depressed looking people. You arrive into work at 7am greeted with a quick hello from people who don't know your name, you sit down at your desk next to Paul who's been fighting you for that promotion and your day of stress starts, answering emails and making phone calls because you are the latest scapegoat for another company misshap that's cost the company a £1b sale, it wasn't your fault but you're at the bottom of the ladder so it's in your lap. You eat lunch at your desk because work is manic. You're in the office until 7pm as even though your job "finishes" at 5pm you have had to complete the emails and get things wrapped up for the day. You also want to show your boss you're worth keeping. You leave the office for your 1 hour trip home knowing that prick Paul is getting the promotion after a day like that and you get home at 8. You're exhausted but you told your friend you would meet them for dinner so you quickly get changed and get back on the tube, by the time you get back from the swanky restaurant it's 11:30pm, you're exhausted and you're £120 out of pocket for the pleasure. You don't sleep that well knowing that the directors board want to interview you and hear your side of the story at 8am on the upper floors. Lets say they earn £127,000 which sounds amazing but after tax that's £77,300. You're also working and living in london which is extremely expensive, the average single person in London has to spend £793 a month just to live a "basic" life (heating, electricity etc etc) plus another £1800-£2500 for renting a house a month. Now, after transport, food, bills (and pints costing over £5 **shudders**) you're getting around £43,784 to spend on stuff like furniture or meals out or whatever makes you happy. You have an RTI in your wrist from using the computer all day every day and your back hurts from an injury from trying too hard at the gym you pay £100 a month to go to. The bougie london osteopath charges £110 an hour. Would I want to get £43,784 working in the city, sucking up to bosses and taking meds for depression because I would not be enjoying it, hell no.

 

 Now look at tree work if you're self employed. You live in the countryside, you have a nice cottage with a garden. You told your client you would be there for 8:30 and start cutting at 9am as they said their neighbours aren't happy with the work being done or the noise. You set your alarm for 7, you get up and have a coffee whilst making sure the van is packed up for the day. At 7:30 your groundie arrives at yours as he lives 20 minutes in the wrong direction so he's jumping in your van for the drive there. You leave at 7:35 for the trip there, you stop to get fuel for the chipper and the van. It's a 30 minute trip through country lanes and you get there at 8:20. You set up for the day, chuck on your waterproofs and your ice gloves as it's pissing down with rain and 5 degrees. You climb the tree and get ready to start. It's 8:50 now and you say sod it, lets start. You are cracking on with the tree removal and your groundie is working his ass off dragging branches 50 yards across the garden to the chipper as you weren't able to park nearby. The neighbour comes out and has a go at you because you started 10 minutes early, you apologise and say your watch must be running fast (It's not but they aren't going to climb 50ft up and check) They tell you they are going to report you for a breach of the peace and go back indoors. You carry on and think nothing of it because police take a day to turn up for a robbery and they aren't going to turn up for something this dumb. As you're working away then pop, your chainsaw stops it won't restart. You don't have a second climbing saw so the remainder of the job is done with your 261 ground saw with a 15" bar on. The property owner comes out at this point to give you a nice hot brew, you stop for 20 minutes to have lunch and warm up. You get the tree down by 3 and you're exhausted however you help your groundie to clear up, pack away and you finish by 4. You head back, dump the load of chippings and get home by 5:30, you light your woodburner, fuelled by the logs in your workshop and you hang up yours and your groundies waterproofs to dry them for the next day. Your groundie heads off home and you put your feet up with a nice hot brew. That evening you walk the half mile to the local pub, you're greated by friendly faces, the barman has your drink on the bar as he knows what you drink, have steak and chips and you chat shite until closing at 10 you get back a little merry to the smell of the woodburner. You're in bed by 10:30. Now let's say you've charged £500 for the tree removal. you usually pay your groundie £120 for the day (Still more than some companies in london are paying their groundies), as he's a young lad (17), he worked bloody hard and he's happy to learn so you give him a little bonus and pay him £135 for the day, that's darn good money. It was a bad day, your chainsaw broke so you have to order a new ignition module that you pick up from the dealership on your way back (£35) you also burned £30 of fuel in the van and chipper on that job. So far you've paid out £200 for the day. You've "Profited" £300 for the day. By the time that you've accounted for the chipper maintenance and van insurance etc for the day lets say you've made ££270 for the day. You have a good accountant that costs £600 per year and your a LTD company. Lets say you're earning under the vat threshold (even though you are better off being on flate rate VAT and getting some ££ out of it) and you're good at being tax efficient so lets forget about tax for now. Well you've just made £20 less than our London friend for the day. You've got up later, worked less hours, you might be cold and wet and a bit pissed off because your chainsaw broke but hey, shit happens tomorrow is a new day and you have good weather due in. You pay £1000 a month for your mortgage (not rent) and your living expenses are quite low, you aren't paying to travel to work as you use your work van so it's a business expense, your local pub was £35 for the meal and a few nice pints of local ale, your heating expenses are £0 as you have the wood burner, your electricity is low as you've been out all day anyway. Your living expenses are £450 for the month. At the end of the day you feel satisfied that you did a good job, your fit and healthy as that's your job. You may have a little niggling back issue but you pay £40 a visit to the osteopath and he has fixed it before every time.

 

Which life would you prefer? I'm sure that guys are going to come on now and say "you wouldn't ever charge £500 for a tree job" "you would never make that much" "you forgot about this" bla bla bla. At the end of the day, over 1/3 of your life is spent at work. I know for sure that I would rather spend 1/3 of my life enjoying what I do, and the other 2/3 having a lifestyle I enjoy. I sure as hell couldn't spend 1/3 of my life at an empty job behind a desk having to do everything my overpaid overlords want me to do and then spend the other 2/3 of my life in a noisy apartment going out for expensive meals and posting it up on instagram hoping that people I used to know seeing me buy expensive things gives my empty life more value. But hey, maybe I'm more simplistic than the others, money doesn't make me happy. One of my friends once said to me that money is just a lubricant, it makes life easier but a F***** engine is a F***** engine and no amount of oil will fix it. 

[SamanthaSunny]

35 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

is your council so inflexible they couldn't allow you to be seconded to the parks department for a while?

I have no tickets yet but if a job does become available within the parks section I can interview the same as any other person and will hopefully have tickets by then. We are severely short staffed within my department so no that would not be allowed. I had not thought of that so thank you ?

[SamanthaSunny]

37 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Do what makes you happy Sam, that's all that really matters. If you know what you're doing with business you can make good money. If you don't know what you're doing with business then you will still easily be able to make enough money to cover your bills. In every industry you will get people who hate it and tell you everything is s*** and you won't make any money and you are making a massive mistake, if you look around the corner you will find massive success stories and people who make good money. In the aircraft world you could work for a company and earn £23k, yet there are guys who work for themselves who have the same training/qualifications but have a business head, they do the same work and earn over 80k and nearly no tax so don't pay any attention to it.

Someone I know got a tree surgeon in to fell a tree for them, the property owner said they would do all the cleanup and disassembly so the guy turned up, felled the tree and walked away. He was there for less than an hour and charged £200, the property owner was amazed at how cheap of a deal that was. If you can't make money in this industry then you are definitely doing something wrong. 

 

Like I said though, do what makes you happy. I look at people who work in London at desk jobs. They slog into work on overcrowded trains in the dark every day and spend all their life in the office. They work every hour under the sun including weekends sucking up to bosses and doing exactly what everyone tells them to do so they get promoted. You live in central london, you get up at 5:30/6am to get the tube into work for your 7am start, you leave your small flat, tripping over the pram left in your shared hallway because your neighbours suck. You've battelled through the angry faces and you're on a packed train with a load of depressed looking people. You arrive into work at 7am greeted with a quick hello from people who don't know your name, you sit down at your desk next to Paul who's been fighting you for that promotion and your day of stress starts, answering emails and making phone calls because you are the latest scapegoat for another company misshap that's cost the company a £1b sale, it wasn't your fault but you're at the bottom of the ladder so it's in your lap. You eat lunch at your desk because work is manic. You're in the office until 7pm as even though your job "finishes" at 5pm you have had to complete the emails and get things wrapped up for the day. You also want to show your boss you're worth keeping. You leave the office for your 1 hour trip home knowing that prick Paul is getting the promotion after a day like that and you get home at 8. You're exhausted but you told your friend you would meet them for dinner so you quickly get changed and get back on the tube, by the time you get back from the swanky restaurant it's 11:30pm, you're exhausted and you're £120 out of pocket for the pleasure. You don't sleep that well knowing that the directors board want to interview you and hear your side of the story at 8am on the upper floors. Lets say they earn £127,000 which sounds amazing but after tax that's £77,300. You're also working and living in london which is extremely expensive, the average single person in London has to spend £793 a month just to live a "basic" life (heating, electricity etc etc) plus another £1800-£2500 for renting a house a month. Now, after transport, food, bills (and pints costing over £5 **shudders**) you're getting around £43,784 to spend on stuff like furniture or meals out or whatever makes you happy. You have an RTI in your wrist from using the computer all day every day and your back hurts from an injury from trying too hard at the gym you pay £100 a month to go to. The bougie london osteopath charges £110 an hour. Would I want to get £43,784 working in the city, sucking up to bosses and taking meds for depression because I would not be enjoying it, hell no.

 

 Now look at tree work if you're self employed. You live in the countryside, you have a nice cottage with a garden. You told your client you would be there for 8:30 and start cutting at 9am as they said their neighbours aren't happy with the work being done or the noise. You set your alarm for 7, you get up and have a coffee whilst making sure the van is packed up for the day. At 7:30 your groundie arrives at yours as he lives 20 minutes in the wrong direction so he's jumping in your van for the drive there. You leave at 7:35 for the trip there, you stop to get fuel for the chipper and the van. It's a 30 minute trip through country lanes and you get there at 8:20. You set up for the day, chuck on your waterproofs and your ice gloves as it's pissing down with rain and 5 degrees. You climb the tree and get ready to start. It's 8:50 now and you say sod it, lets start. You are cracking on with the tree removal and your groundie is working his ass off dragging branches 50 yards across the garden to the chipper as you weren't able to park nearby. The neighbour comes out and has a go at you because you started 10 minutes early, you apologise and say your watch must be running fast (It's not but they aren't going to climb 50ft up and check) They tell you they are going to report you for a breach of the peace and go back indoors. You carry on and think nothing of it because police take a day to turn up for a robbery and they aren't going to turn up for something this dumb. As you're working away then pop, your chainsaw stops it won't restart. You don't have a second climbing saw so the remainder of the job is done with your 261 ground saw with a 15" bar on. The property owner comes out at this point to give you a nice hot brew, you stop for 20 minutes to have lunch and warm up. You get the tree down by 3 and you're exhausted however you help your groundie to clear up, pack away and you finish by 4. You head back, dump the load of chippings and get home by 5:30, you light your woodburner, fuelled by the logs in your workshop and you hang up yours and your groundies waterproofs to dry them for the next day. Your groundie heads off home and you put your feet up with a nice hot brew. That evening you walk the half mile to the local pub, you're greated by friendly faces, the barman has your drink on the bar as he knows what you drink, have steak and chips and you chat shite until closing at 10 you get back a little merry to the smell of the woodburner. You're in bed by 10:30. Now let's say you've charged £500 for the tree removal. you usually pay your groundie £120 for the day (Still more than some companies in london are paying their groundies), as he's a young lad (17), he worked bloody hard and he's happy to learn so you give him a little bonus and pay him £135 for the day, that's darn good money. It was a bad day, your chainsaw broke so you have to order a new ignition module that you pick up from the dealership on your way back (£35) you also burned £30 of fuel in the van and chipper on that job. So far you've paid out £200 for the day. You've "Profited" £300 for the day. By the time that you've accounted for the chipper maintenance and van insurance etc for the day lets say you've made ££270 for the day. You have a good accountant that costs £600 per year and your a LTD company. Lets say you're earning under the vat threshold (even though you are better off being on flate rate VAT and getting some ££ out of it) and you're good at being tax efficient so lets forget about tax for now. Well you've just made £20 less than our London friend for the day. You've got up later, worked less hours, you might be cold and wet and a bit pissed off because your chainsaw broke but hey, shit happens tomorrow is a new day and you have good weather due in. You pay £1000 a month for your mortgage (not rent) and your living expenses are quite low, you aren't paying to travel to work as you use your work van so it's a business expense, your local pub was £35 for the meal and a few nice pints of local ale, your heating expenses are £0 as you have the wood burner, your electricity is low as you've been out all day anyway. Your living expenses are £450 for the month. At the end of the day you feel satisfied that you did a good job, your fit and healthy as that's your job. You may have a little niggling back issue but you pay £40 a visit to the osteopath and he has fixed it before every time.

 

Which life would you prefer? I'm sure that guys are going to come on now and say "you wouldn't ever charge £500 for a tree job" "you would never make that much" "you forgot about this" bla bla bla. At the end of the day, over 1/3 of your life is spent at work. I know for sure that I would rather spend 1/3 of my life enjoying what I do, and the other 2/3 having a lifestyle I enjoy. I sure as hell couldn't spend 1/3 of my life at an empty job behind a desk having to do everything my overpaid overlords want me to do and then spend the other 2/3 of my life in a noisy apartment going out for expensive meals and posting it up on instagram hoping that people I used to know seeing me buy expensive things gives my empty life more value. But hey, maybe I'm more simplistic than the others, money doesn't make me happy. One of my friends once said to me that money is just a lubricant, it makes life easier but a F***** engine is a F***** engine and no amount of oil will fix it. 

Paddy I love the effort you have gone too to help me see what’s in front of me and I choose the second option every single time ? I have worked outdoors my whole life in all weather and I promise you I would rather be in the pouring rain than in an office listening to the spiteful gossiping and having to watch all the falsehood that goes on amongst colleagues to fit in and climb the ladder. It is soul destroying truly ? I am expected to attend the office weekly to do paperwork but I bought a laptop instead and send all my findings to the office remotely. I work on my own all week and I’m ok with that. I just wanted to slot into a team of friendly people and learn a trade.  I agree with your point about money Paddy if I can pay my bills and have the basics in life then that’s no sacrifice at all to actually look forward to work instead of dreading the day ahead. There are awful parts of my job I detest which would upset some people so I won’t share unless through a private message and these roles were added to my terms of employment. If I did not agree to them I would have to find a new job and I have a mortgage to pay so I agreed. Really feeling the hate from some of the comments posted which is sad and would put some off using the site. But NOT me ? I’ve had a hard life so it’s nothing I cannot deal with in a ladylike manner ? x Some people on this site make it worth staying on for and for that I am humbly grateful x

[Rough Hewn]

As an employer, anyone who paid for their own tickets is worth a try out. It shows initiative and positive attitude.
You can’t learn those on a course.
Not everything in arb is about climbing, (whatever the climber says).
These days it’s machinery, big stuff.
Driving plant and a hgv is a very desirable trait in arb.
Have you though about travelling as a sub contractor?
There’s a few of us on here who don’t have the luxury of local regular work.
Working for a different firm every week really is an eye opener to how it can be done.....
Get your tickets and kit, and a vehicle you can sleep in.
[emoji106]

[SamanthaSunny]

13 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

As an employer, anyone who paid for their own tickets is worth a try out. It shows initiative and positive attitude.
You can’t learn those on a course.
Not everything in arb is about climbing, (whatever the climber says).
These days it’s machinery, big stuff.
Driving plant and a hgv is a very desirable trait in arb.
Have you though about travelling as a sub contractor?
There’s a few of us on here who don’t have the luxury of local regular work.
Working for a different firm every week really is an eye opener to how it can be done.....
Get your tickets and kit, and a vehicle you can sleep in.

Thank you Rough hewn your really kind and I appreciate that so much. I have found someone on the Island who sub contracts and he said to contact him again when I have my tickets so definitely would travel and it’s good to hear someone out there is offering friendly advice so Thankyou ? I think if I work hard and stay humble I should be ok ? ?????

[The avantgardener]

23 hours ago, lux said:

In your circumstances the 10 week course at merrist wood would be a much better option. It’s about 3 grand you will get a balance of theory and practical that I’d imagine will give you a better foot on the ladder that just 4 weeks practical.

Unfortunately due to COVID most of the colleges including Merrist Wood are running the practical side of things at half that of normal with remote/cyber tuition in between,.

I personally think the more practice the better so I would go with a dedicated training provider.