The inevitable tree too close to house on clay soil question

[BellaB]

Hello

I’m new here, and thanks in advance

I live in WSuffolk, it’s clay, we’re atop a hill, if that’s relevant.

2 story House, walls go down 1m deep, below which is concrete in trench.  (We needed soil taken away after an oil spill elsewhere, so I saw this)  No sign of subsidence.   Previously the whole estate was a pig farm.  Maybe the odd shelter here and there, maybe some shelter trees. It wasn’t woodland. 

 

It’s been standing about 22 yrs,  now surrounded by patio, with a lean-to kit built conservatory, which sits on concrete pads, will be demolished within a year or two, it’s in an appalling state!  To be replaced by patio I expect.
 

 Patio shields soil somewhat, It’s on a bed of mortar blobs and not well pointed. Some water may get through but not all. Prior to that going in 8 yrs ago it was gravel. Next door has an original patio laid as well, and the birch roots are lifting it nearest the tree.   Both houses about 5m distant. So we’ve had a request to do something about the tree. 
 

The original owners (probably) planted trees down the boundary,( I’m sure they don’t predate the houses,)and closest to the house is a silver birch, and then a Malus, then a palm, each about  2m apart. The birch is now taller than the house. Trunk about 30cm diameter  We topped it about 6-8yrs back and it rewarded us with a spurt of growth, and two trunks instead of one!

 

We've had a tree surgeon look at it, and he advises to take it out in one go. We’ve heard about heave and that worries us, but he dismissed the idea.  He actually said taking it down gradually would stimulate the roots to grow more. What do you think of that please?  We’ve already cut it back once, as I said. 
 

We chose him because he did a balanced and attractive job of thinning a neighbour’s young trees, but I don’t know his training. He said he wasn’t insured to give a guaranteed opinion, and to inquire further, and so I’ve found you in my search. Sorry pic is rotated. Don’t know how to fix that!

Can you help please?  Many thanks

Edited July 10, 2020 by BellaB

[Khriss]

Disagree with staged reduction opinion here. I have recovered many Cherry with a pruning regime to counter pronounced lean or shading issues, it is species specific and will not always fit the bill ( certainly not here)  but it can recover a crown along with good root care. Costly i know but then wot is a tree worth?  K

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

30 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Disagree with staged reduction opinion here. I have recovered many Cherry with a pruning regime to counter pronounced lean or shading issues, it is species specific and will not always fit the bill ( certainly not here)  but it can recover a crown along with good root care. Costly i know but then wot is a tree worth?  K

Our predecessors at home did a 1 stage ‘reduction’ on this cherry. 
 

Cut at 1.5m and retained the stem. 
 

it’s taken 10 years of alternate yr pruning but it’s come back nice. 

{not much help to the question at hand but nice to have a ‘good news’ distraction ?}

 

[Khriss]

Sorright Kev, we still dont know what the question is yet but keep posting interesting stuff an we will get there in the end.  K

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

3 hours ago, Khriss said:

Sorright Kev, we still dont know what the question is yet but keep posting interesting stuff an we will get there in the end.  K

How to rotate a photo?

[Ratman]

How to rotate a potato?

Sorry.... couldn’t resist! [emoji4]

[Khriss]

17 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

How to rotate a photo?

If you tip yr head so yr ear is on yr shoulder - that does work . K

 

 

( 'ask a stupid question - get stupid answer'     ' Confucious'   )

[BellaB]

Hi Guys, sorry I wasn’t monitoring yesterday, and thought you’d all still be busy high above the ground when I posted on Friday, chainsaw in hand!

I'm very grateful for your input, and you seem to be saying to take it down in one, that the idea of stages is old hat, and if roots regrow they won’t grow beyond, what? Didn’t get that bit. But I did suppose they wouldn’t grow beyond what was needed to support the remaining top growth spurt.  
Since it’s already breaking flag stones I don’t want it making more root, but on the other hand the existing roots will have been supporting a tall tree prior to topping it, so why are more roots needed by the tree if we don’t allow it to regrow?

Anyway, the question I meant to ask is, please, how  best do I have this taken down (oner or staged) to protect me and the neighbour from heave? She’s nervous because of her patio lifted by roots, so I think we’d better take it right down.

We like the tree, but it’s too close

We’re on quite heavy clay, 

 

It’s quite a weepy birch. Could it be managed into a Blob on a stick?!  Sounds terrible,  but there is a diagonal side branch that would help it to still provide a bit of canopy. Weeping leafy habit would hide the truncation, at least in the summer, and we could easily reach the top to manage it in future.   Depending on the roots not to proliferate, of course.   You all talk about pollarding managing the size of a tree, so I’m hoping it would manage the roots too.  Would you do that in one go?

 

Thank you

 Belinda 

[Khriss]

In a word Bellinda - No.  Frankly you will need far more detail and proper assessment by a subsidence savvy arborist plus an engineers report for soil and structure. Obvs this costs - but you are trying to establish guarantees here, so online searching cannot do that. It can only point you in the right direction. K

[Stere]

If an engineers report comes back &   says might be heave etc if removed, how do you proceed if you want rid of tree?

Edited July 12, 2020 by Stere

[daltontrees]

On 11/07/2020 at 09:12, Khriss said:

Disagree with staged reduction opinion here. I have recovered many Cherry with a pruning regime to counter pronounced lean or shading issues, it is species specific and will not always fit the bill ( certainly not here)  but it can recover a crown along with good root care. Costly i know but then wot is a tree worth?  K

The issue being discussed was heave. In areas of shrinkable clays long-standing trees can result in shrunk clays and if they are built-on in dehydrated state and then trees are removed the clays will swell and cause heave of the ground and damage to buildings. Some suggest that the damaging effects on heave to buildings can be reduced by removing the trees gradually, but the obvious truth is that the overall swelling and heave will occur eventually whether done gradually or all in one go, and gradual removal is not goijng to change that. If anything, it would be worse to remove in stages.