curious ash damage

[Gary Prentice]

3 hours ago, Stubby said:

2 years ago I said something similar but now , well its depressing Khriss .

It's just evolution Stubby. In a couple of hundred years there will be a new population of immune ash trees, the progeny of the immune trees that exist now. On the bright side there seems to be a small number of immune trees and they seed like mad.

 

What we should be doing is learning from this, particularly in urban environments and doing more to create sustainability through species diversity.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Gary Prentice

[Stubby]

2 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

It's just evolution Stubby. In a couple of hundred years there will be a new population of immune ash trees, the progeny of the immune trees that exist now. On the bright side there seems to be a small number of immune trees and they seed like mad.

Hope so Gary . Fingers crossed mate .

[Gary Prentice]

4 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Hope so Gary . Fingers crossed mate .

If we do have truly immune trees there's an additional bonus that we don't have to spend years and years trying to breed a tree that's tolerant/resistant, like the attempts to find something to combat DED.

 

Imagine growing a tree for ten years +, pinning your hopes that this is the one and then it dies on you and dashes your hopes. Ash 'should' look after itself to some extent and only need human intervention in areas where there are no immune trees.  

[Tilio-acerion]

23 hours ago, difflock said:

If an Ash survives Ash die back, and is still throwing out fresh growth(below the dead wood) 3 years later, is it going to survive, or will it likely eventually succumb, and therefore best removed and burned, since I have a few like that.

I was guessing these specimens have some natural resistence, or they would have died outright the first year, which is why I left them alone.

Marcus

Experience from Europe shows that in the early stages of an ADB outbreak, due to the low infection pressure/spore loading, specimens with moderate-low tolerance  become infected yet can survive for a fair few years, often rallying. Trees losing their apical shoot, developing diamond lesions are typical of this. For them to be so affected at such a low spore loading demonstrates their lower tolerance, but as the infection pressure is low and likely sporadic & isolated they can survive and respond to the infection eg either by producing replacement growth or compartmentalising shoot infections (causing the diamonds) etc. 
 

However once the spore loading increases and the entire tree is under infection pressure (eg spores consistently  alighting on all its foliage) and has been for a number of years (upwards of 10), the trees true tolerance will not be revealed. Add in all the other contributing, compounding factors - that can wax and wain - makes being able to make early predictions on whether a tree will survive long term, impossible. 
 

As far as I last knew, as yet no trees have been found to not be infected. Those which are non symptomatic are just very highly tolerant, yet still have ADB present.

Hope this helps. Attached for reference.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Tilio-acerion

[Stere]

Hope if they develop resistance its not  expensive proprietary strains and made widely available.

 

 

[Tregroes]

On 16/06/2020 at 05:14, Tilio-acerion said:

This. In your second photo it looks like the breeding galleries are present, or rather had been. They’re a good food source for birds. 
 

As a result of ADB there’ll be a population explosion of ash bark beetles.

Thanks for the information. Is there any method of control, or a way to contain the spread? This is a plantation (small) of similarly aged trees. I can't find anything useful online, mostly a lot of taxonomic abstracts. I can't find information on the life cycle, or even whether the adults fly or not. If the adult climbs the tree, and I knew when, I could try sticky bands as for fruit trees. A method of control for the emerald borer I've seen is for soil drenching with pesticide that the tree roots take up, but it was a US site and we don't have access to the chemicals they have there --or I don't.
Anyway, I take it this is a late tree now and should be removed. Is that right? Any other info or links you can suggest?

[Paul in the woods]

I would suggest the bark beetles are attacking dead or dying wood. When I've felled healthy ash and left the logs down for a few months I notice ash bark beetle damage. I've not noticed it on healthy living trees.

 

I've just removed a 25yr old, ash with obvious ash dieback. It looked very similar to your post with a dead crown and fresh growth and missing bark with beetle damage.

 

I'm sure the beetles fly, each year we get covered in them. The car windscreen for example can get covered in the beetles. We live on the edge of some woodland with a large amount of ash.

[Gary Prentice]

16 hours ago, Tilio-acerion said:

As far as I last knew, as yet no trees have been found to not be infected. Those which are non symptomatic are just very highly tolerant, yet still have ADB present.

What about 'Betty', discovered a few years ago 

 

Jokes aside, the media coverage read 'tolerant' or something like. A quick search this morning just shows that there doesn't seem to be that much up to date information available. 

 

Around 2014 I read that something like 90% of Denmark's trees were infected. It would be interesting to see what their situation is now. Do you think that if highly tolerant trees interbreed there may be some likelihood that in time a properly immune genotype (is that the term?) would occur? 

[Gary Prentice]

1 hour ago, Paul in the woods said:

I would suggest the bark beetles are attacking dead or dying wood. When I've felled healthy ash and left the logs down for a few months I notice ash bark beetle damage. I've not noticed it on healthy living trees.

I've been reading about the Spruce beetle in the states and that it usually infests dead, dying and stressed trees - while the beetle population is moderate. When there's more suitable trees available the population explodes and the problem gets worse. Recommendations are to remove infected trees, dead and dying etc (obviously not practical in their forest locations) and only to plant spruce on 'ideal' sites (soil types, suitably drained etc) to reduce stress. 

 

It would probably help to encourage predators, towards maintaining the beetle population to a tolerable level.

[timbernut]

What about 'Betty', discovered a few years ago [emoji3]
 
Jokes aside, the media coverage read 'tolerant' or something like. A quick search this morning just shows that there doesn't seem to be that much up to date information available. 
 
Around 2014 I read that something like 90% of Denmark's trees were infected. It would be interesting to see what their situation is now. Do you think that if highly tolerant trees interbreed there may be some likelihood that in time a properly immune genotype (is that the term?) would occur? 

I’m sure I saw a report on Anglia News a while back that Betty had succumbed to ADB or was at least declining quite rapidly, I’m about 10 miles from Ashwellthorpe, where Betty is/was and dieback was first ‘discovered’ in U.K.