Maybe the UK should plant more....

[Mr. Ed]

Anyone know the case against Black Locust (pseudoacacia somethingorother)? Remarkable properties are claimed for its timber (as long lasting as teak apparently) and grows like a weed. This has led to its planting being banned in some states of the USA where it is native. Hungary has been the pioneer in selecting and growing it as a plantation tree and is now exporting it back to the USA as a structural timber. 
 

I have no dog in this fight except that we inherited a half dozen of them and they’re attractive fellows. We’re in Ireland and there’s apparently a programme to promote them as a plantation tree here. 

[Stubby]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Ed said:

Anyone know the case against Black Locust (pseudoacacia somethingorother)? Remarkable properties are claimed for its timber (as long lasting as teak apparently) and grows like a weed. This has led to its planting being banned in some states of the USA where it is native. Hungary has been the pioneer in selecting and growing it as a plantation tree and is now exporting it back to the USA as a structural timber. 
 

I have no dog in this fight except that we inherited a half dozen of them and they’re attractive fellows. We’re in Ireland and there’s apparently a programme to promote them as a plantation tree here. 

I had one and it got too big ( touching the gutter of the house ) so felled it . Great fire wood and looked/felt strong . Within a couple of years the stump had coppiced and was well over head height .

[Mr. Ed]

Did you find new shoots from the roots? (Which sounds like a rap event)

[Stere]

Where did you buy all the euc from tempted to try a few dozen.

 

Seems ireland is funding  euc planting....

 

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/grantandpremiumschemes/2015/AfforestationSchemeEd2190315.pdf

 

Quote

E. glaucescens, gunnii, nitens, rodwayi and subcrenulata. (E nitens onlyto be restricted to within 50 km of coast and frost-prone, low-lying areas also avoided), other species will be considered on application.1

 

 

 

 

[Gary Prentice]

On 04/06/2020 at 23:12, openspaceman said:

I always preferred sweet chestnut and my felling partner spent the rest of his time harvesting, cleaving and erecting chestnut fencing. Mind I must have cut far more softwood 5'6" stakes from softwood thinnings at 35p each than he ever made. I also wonder if the softwood got advantage from MAFF grants (essentially because of fraudulant claims for longevity). Anyway far easier to process softwood through a peeler pointer and into the pressure tank than to cleave and point chestnut. We as a society don't think things through, chestnut lasts about as long as the wire around here, softwood, poorly treated about half that time and leaves a residue of chromated copper arsenate long after its useful life, the organic copper stuff that replaced it doesn't last hardly at all.

I once had an interesting conversation with a farmer erecting new post and barbed wire fencing, thanks to some grant scheme or other. He was using old posts, instead of the brand new softwood posts evident elsewhere on the farm. He explained that the old posts were oak and had been salvaged from an old fence line that had been replaced (another grantscheme) over ten years previously and chucked aside.

 

He reckoned that they'd been in the ground for 10-15 years, put aside for around another ten exposed to the elements but would still outlast anything that he could buy

 

 

[Gary Prentice]

On 03/06/2020 at 08:43, Khriss said:

@Squaredy   far too many non natives in this country as it is. As a UK plan you also have to take into account flooding events - where trees can assist. K

Going to rattle your chain with this 

 

There is a long established belief that we should stick to natives. Why is that? 

 

I'm not disputing that at one time there were reasons for this but looking forward I question whether this still holds true. With globalisation we live in an altogether different world and sticking to the old doctrines doesn't make much sense. 

 

Rather than adhering to the small palate of native trees shouldn't we be looking to what will grow well here? The only way to future proof against climate change and pathogens is to increase the diversity of our planting. 

 

I suspect that a barrier to change is a belief that evolution is a linear process, failing to recognise that nature is evolving at a faster clip than at any other time in history. We disparage trees like sycamore (introduced, not native) in the mistaken belief that they don't provide much in the way of ecological habitat for birds and beasties, while in truth they are only surpassed by oaks and one other native species (which I can't remember off hand)

 

I admit that a small percentage of our native fauna has very specific niche habitat requirements but the remainder are pretty adaptable, taking advantage of whatever trees are providing in the way of shelter, pollen, fruit/seeds/nuts etc. 

 

 

[Khriss]

28 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

Going to rattle your chain with this 

 

There is a long established belief that we should stick to natives. Why is that? 

 

I'm not disputing that at one time there were reasons for this but looking forward I question whether this still holds true. With globalisation we live in an altogether different world and sticking to the old doctrines doesn't make much sense. 

 

Rather than adhering to the small palate of native trees shouldn't we be looking to what will grow well here? The only way to future proof against climate change and pathogens is to increase the diversity of our planting. 

 

I suspect that a barrier to change is a belief that evolution is a linear process, failing to recognise that nature is evolving at a faster clip than at any other time in history. We disparage trees like sycamore (introduced, not native) in the mistaken belief that they don't provide much in the way of ecological habitat for birds and beasties, while in truth they are only surpassed by oaks and one other native species (which I can't remember off hand)

 

I admit that a small percentage of our native fauna has very specific niche habitat requirements but the remainder are pretty adaptable, taking advantage of whatever trees are providing in the way of shelter, pollen, fruit/seeds/nuts etc. 

 

 

Yr absolutely right an dont start taking me for some ' British Trees fr British Land'  nob end ?  but there is a large number of trees planted in poor locations and a poor choice, that focusing off Leylandii and L. Plane cant be bad. Planting traditionally found species is less fraught as exotic ornamentals have brought a lot of P & D to this land.  ( glad yr back / alive / still talking to me  ? )   K

[Gary Prentice]

6 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Planting traditionally found species is less fraught as exotic ornamentals have brought a lot of P & D to this land.  ( glad yr back / alive / still talking to me  ? )   K

Can't argue wih P&Ds on inported plants, although I believe that dunnage is actually one of the biggest culprits. (ALB - Paddock Wood).

 

Maybe if the government actually remember that we're an island, the nursery trade adopted the quarantine measures that Barchams apparently use and we employ a few more plant inspectors etc that risk could be reduced?

 

Thanks for the good wishes, I'm doing my best. 4th cycle next week and the paraprotein level continues downward.

[Khriss]

Sycamores are great fr Bats, but they have taken over in most of SE  and all that stupid N. Maple planted by Councils in 1970s was big  mistake. I would like to see  more Yew (  long lived and mechanically bomb proof)  Sorbus ( conservation value but short lived) Oaks obviously. Scots fr Red squirrel. F. Maple for shelter belts. K

[Khriss]

..... In fact, you could almost take that as a Tree Planting Program for UK ( if that million tree planting ever happens)  i didnt include Cherry spp as, much as i love them they are high maintenance growth rate and root problems ( plant em only in parkland)  Beech are fab but very soil sensitive.  ...... Oh an rest of gaps, just fill in with Sitka spruce..... ?  K

 

 

 

( That last one was fr Big J )