Maybe the UK should plant more....

[The avantgardener]

The growth rate on these Eucalyptus is incredible, certainly here in the South East, don’t think they will be outperforming Sitka in the Highlands anytime soon though!

 I can see the benefit of planting them for firewood/biomass production for personal or large estates etc.
But for me, the downside is that there is little to no biodiversity/ecological benefit, they are a potential powder keg in prolonged dry weather, RE: Portugal’s internal inferno a couple of years back, Spain removing the vast amounts of Eucalyptus presently and replanting with a different genus.
Tilhill are currently doing trials in Wales with Eucalyptus.
So, big return, in quick time with minimal beat up/maintenance costs, all machine processed, the majority straight to biomass. right up Tilhill’s street.
Eucalyptus has its place, but as a large scale alternative to Sitka et al, I couldn’t think of anything worse.

Edited June 5, 2020 by The avantgardener

[Big J]

2 hours ago, AHPP said:

Do they grow quicker than Sitka in a plantation?

3-4 times quicker

[The avantgardener]

24 minutes ago, Big J said:

3-4 times quicker

But how will they deal with high altitude, shallow soil,cold Winter and incessant rainfall of the Highlands compared to Sitka?

[Big J]

44 minutes ago, The avantgardener said:

But how will they deal with high altitude, shallow soil,cold Winter and incessant rainfall of the Highlands compared to Sitka?

Nitens won't, but there are other species (such as glaucescens) that will tolerate higher altitude and colder winters well. They like loads of rain too.

 

Nevertheless, I wouldn't prescribe eucs for everywhere. My personal preference is to split UK forestry into three zones (with obvious exceptions, such as existing broadleaf woodland). Low lying, flat ground should in my opinion be planted with predominantly fast growing species such as eucs and poplar. Intermediate zones, with steep slopes and access issues should be planted with biodiverse, native woodlands, where harvesting isn't a key concern. Uplands should be planted with softwood, to provide decent structural timber. That way, we fulfill our needs for biodiversity, biomass and quality sawlogs. It is of course only my opinion.

[coppicer]

5 hours ago, The avantgardener said:

But for me, the downside is that there is little to no biodiversity/ecological benefit, they are a potential powder keg in prolonged dry weather

Agreed. Mass planting, even of native trees, something of a gamble due to the law of unintended consequences. The Japanese did it after the second world war, because they had been short of resources during the conflict and were determined not to have that happen again. Also they thought they might not be able to import. So they planted sugi (cedar) plantations on an unprecedented scale, in the regions around Tokyo.

 

Of course, trade came roaring back within a decade or so, and they found that harvesting their own cedar - nice though it was - couldn't compete in economic terms with imports from developing countries. They also found that these vast cedar plantations generated clouds of pollen that basically triggered hay fever in a large percentage of the population who had hitherto been untroubled by it, because pollen levels had never been that high, historically speaking.

 

It was explained to me once that the allergic reaction to pollen is cumulative, like filling a cup with water. The person receives the stimulus (water is poured into the cup), but they don't react until it hits a certain critical level, which varies by individual. Once it hits that level, the cup can't take any more water and it overflows - and that's when you start getting hay fever. I lived in Japan for a long time, and after about 10 years, having been unaffected previously, I too started to get hay fever in the pollen season (Feb/Mar) like many Japanese. I read an interesting academic paper on it but can't find it now.

 

So yes, let's be careful with large-scale plantings. It's not as if the conifers here in the UK did our ecology much good after WWII...

 

[Mr. Ed]

Anyone know the case against Black Locust (pseudoacacia somethingorother)? Remarkable properties are claimed for its timber (as long lasting as teak apparently) and grows like a weed. This has led to its planting being banned in some states of the USA where it is native. Hungary has been the pioneer in selecting and growing it as a plantation tree and is now exporting it back to the USA as a structural timber. 
 

I have no dog in this fight except that we inherited a half dozen of them and they’re attractive fellows. We’re in Ireland and there’s apparently a programme to promote them as a plantation tree here. 

[Stubby]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Ed said:

Anyone know the case against Black Locust (pseudoacacia somethingorother)? Remarkable properties are claimed for its timber (as long lasting as teak apparently) and grows like a weed. This has led to its planting being banned in some states of the USA where it is native. Hungary has been the pioneer in selecting and growing it as a plantation tree and is now exporting it back to the USA as a structural timber. 
 

I have no dog in this fight except that we inherited a half dozen of them and they’re attractive fellows. We’re in Ireland and there’s apparently a programme to promote them as a plantation tree here. 

I had one and it got too big ( touching the gutter of the house ) so felled it . Great fire wood and looked/felt strong . Within a couple of years the stump had coppiced and was well over head height .

[Mr. Ed]

Did you find new shoots from the roots? (Which sounds like a rap event)

[Stere]

Where did you buy all the euc from tempted to try a few dozen.

 

Seems ireland is funding  euc planting....

 

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/forestry/grantandpremiumschemes/2015/AfforestationSchemeEd2190315.pdf

 

Quote

E. glaucescens, gunnii, nitens, rodwayi and subcrenulata. (E nitens onlyto be restricted to within 50 km of coast and frost-prone, low-lying areas also avoided), other species will be considered on application.1

 

 

 

 

[Gary Prentice]

On 04/06/2020 at 23:12, openspaceman said:

I always preferred sweet chestnut and my felling partner spent the rest of his time harvesting, cleaving and erecting chestnut fencing. Mind I must have cut far more softwood 5'6" stakes from softwood thinnings at 35p each than he ever made. I also wonder if the softwood got advantage from MAFF grants (essentially because of fraudulant claims for longevity). Anyway far easier to process softwood through a peeler pointer and into the pressure tank than to cleave and point chestnut. We as a society don't think things through, chestnut lasts about as long as the wire around here, softwood, poorly treated about half that time and leaves a residue of chromated copper arsenate long after its useful life, the organic copper stuff that replaced it doesn't last hardly at all.

I once had an interesting conversation with a farmer erecting new post and barbed wire fencing, thanks to some grant scheme or other. He was using old posts, instead of the brand new softwood posts evident elsewhere on the farm. He explained that the old posts were oak and had been salvaged from an old fence line that had been replaced (another grantscheme) over ten years previously and chucked aside.

 

He reckoned that they'd been in the ground for 10-15 years, put aside for around another ten exposed to the elements but would still outlast anything that he could buy