Forestry Grants and the Magic Money Tree

[Khriss]

3 hours ago, Stubby said:

This is true . I was thinking it terms of the fire wood market but yes that's what is happening Steve  .

We are importing it by the super- freighter load from US  as it is,  for Drax   K

[Sutton]

K, What you say about Drax is interesting. The calls for locally grown willow SRC didn't last long did they? And whilst artic loads of arb waste and brash bales are worthy, they alone are hardly going to keep the country's lights on - as has already been said.

So, the likes of Drax box-ticks its way through justifying their £1.5million+ daily subsidy which leaves us the home consumers ultimately paying for higher kWh per unit (after standing charges) than most other countries in the EU.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/647341/International_Energy_Price_Comparisons_September_2017.pdf

Relatedly, the new power station being built at Bridgwater is being delayed and costing more and the energy it'll eventually produce wont be a bargain neither:

https://www.theenergyshop.com/articles/what-does-hinkley-point-mean-for-energy-bills

Lecky bills going up means good prospects for tree planting schemes to make the firewood market more sustainable especially when lobbyists are trying to ban gas boilers or even if the warmongers bate Putin into turming off the gas supply.

The understandably huge number of people signing up for woodchip tipoffs here on Arbtalk during this lockdown period might well be the start of more promising things on the drive to keep it local

[Khriss]

@Sutton  ,  mate, I used to convert for fuel wood chip ( abt 40 tonne / day with 16" heizohack ) an that gets burnt at Drax in abt 10mins,   we can't product enuff fr our power need with wood. ( don't ask how I know this but mum lives very close to Drax..... ) US sawmills can easily fill the quota.  K

[openspaceman]

23 hours ago, Khriss said:

@Sutton  ,  mate, I used to convert for fuel wood chip ( abt 40 tonne / day with 16" heizohack ) an that gets burnt at Drax in abt 10mins,   we can't product enuff fr our power need with wood. ( don't ask how I know this but mum lives very close to Drax..... ) US sawmills can easily fill the quota.  K

Even with all that import our total electricity from biomass seldom meets 5% of demand with Gas and nuclear (22% including France's contribution) providing the backbone, then wind then solar

Edited May 12, 2020 by openspaceman

[Sutton]

1 hour ago, Khriss said:

@Sutton  ,  mate, I used to convert for fuel wood chip ( abt 40 tonne / day with 16" heizohack ) an that gets burnt at Drax in abt 10mins,   we can't product enuff fr our power need with wood. ( don't ask how I know this but mum lives very close to Drax..... ) US sawmills can easily fill the quota.  K

Agreed. Supplying Drax is like this old cartoon. I'm saying something more positive:

[Khriss]

.... oh, an we 'used to ' have 3 new drift mines within a stones throw...... shut now. Thanks Thatcher you stupid cow. K

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Khriss said:

.... oh, an we 'used to ' have 3 new drift mines within a stones throw...... shut now. Thanks Thatcher you stupid cow. K

To my mind  getting out of mining coal was sensible on a number of counts even if she did it for idealogical reasons  and didn't make adequate  provisions for miners who lost jobs. Mind those that came into forestry seemed institutionalised and unable to adapt.

 

She was far worse for the country in selling off social housing wholesale and committing us to depend on financial services for other countries.

[Sutton]

True, and when you see the industrial innovators of Germany aren't progressing on renewables and stopgapping with a new Datteln coal fired powerstation, some of us can't help but think that the beancounters must have missed some opportunities for the sake of looking good in the short-term.

Most of our utilities Companies are foreign owned. Firewood and Community Heat and Power Partnerships are I believe serious options for the future but the UK being what it is, means a huge host of factors are needed to be appeased first.

Thinking about the highly-charged image of the magic money tree is as a good place as any to start

[Khriss]

Yea that. But buying in coal from Poland n S America to break striking miners ?? Wot the fuck. Those pits were very productive and safe and it only mirrors wot they then did ti the NHS later. Internal market nonsense.  An its ordinary people pay the price you notice. 

 

UK Forestry could be way more profitable and productive. Plenty of room for quality hardwood strip planting  and softwood forests for several reasons .  Not a sop to a few eco warriors who couldnt saw if you made them .  K

[drinksloe]

I'm never 1 for conspiracy theories but was told a government ministers family was heavily involved with the shipping off chip for biomass.

 

Also if ur a forest owner the subsidy inflated prices for biomass might suit u, but if ur buying timber for firewod etc t may well mean u can't afford to buy it or the folk u sell to can't afford it.

 

A big biomass power station near me, when it was 1st built it was never meant to take round timber and only burn waste ( brash, stumps and local willow) hardly any willow around now.

And u should see the q of timber wagons waiting to get in in morning.

A lot of the small independent sawmills ( fencing or pallet) really struggle to buy timber in.

 

I think they aljed about building 1 iin Falkirk area a few years ago, but a few lcalchip board factories managed to get it stopped as could off cost a few jobs.