Low down bark damage

[David Cropper]

1 hour ago, MattyF said:

What would you suggest David , there is about 20acres of x mass trees and 10 of broadleafs surrounded keilder forest so there are quite a few deer! , I can find where they are getting in and fix but then they are stuck in there... so would need removing completely?
They are starting to do a lot of damage.. but if they restore a natural level of strong buck keeping others out I don’t mind ... then again I don’t think there is enough land in the block to maintain even a small population.

Matty. I managed nearly 3000 acres at Lulworth firing range and slightly less at Bovington Training area in Dorset as an Army deer manager. We reckoned we had at a conservative estimate at Lulworth 400 deer , mainly sika, quite a few roe as well, no fallow or muntjac. You need to take out 25% every year. You need to get a fairly accurate count of how many you have if possible. You want to take twice as many females as males, unfortunately you have half as much daylight hours to achieve that. You have to be ruthless with the females. Take the ones without kids upto Christnmas, then after take any female you can, if possible slotting the kids first. They will normally survive without mum, but it's preferable.  Also we looked to see what the unborn sex was, a grisly thing, but it will give you an idea of ratio, male to female. Twins are the norm with triplets not unusual, but singletons are. Remember also that roe tend to stick to their own area, sika will be in the same location for say six days, then the seventh disappeared. Try to cull out as many as possible yearling bucks if you're experiencing damage.  If you have a few mature ones, select the older who may be getting past their best. Try not to leave a vacuum which will be filled by youngsters vying for territory. 

I went beagling at Kielder Forest area 1977, stayed at Otterburn Camp whilst hounds were kept at Bellingham, so know your problems up there. To control the deer population, the Forestry Commission would have installed rides, one for fire control and the other for effective deer management using high seats. That was problem in Kintyre in Argyll when no rides where installed late 60s I think. You ended up with red breeding with sika causing all sorts of problems. One method we us3d on the Army ranges was to get a few people upwind of where you know there are roe, get them to push through making normal amount of noise, talking etc, as though they are forestry workers. You don't want them acting like beaters, just enough to get the beasts moving nice and gently onwards, you would then have a rifle downwind waiting for the roe to appear. Be aware, one minute nothing then the next he'll step out, not a care in the World. As always, safety is paramount, maintain your safe arcs of fire, go over the plan and walk the area with your "beaters" beforehand so everyone is upto date and knows exactly where everyone else is at all times. The rifle will obviously only take a shot when he has a safe backdrop in case the round goes astray. If in doubt, don't take the shot. Let everyone know when the drive is complete, use comms or even a whistle.This is a good way to select your beast but you want to do your homework well beforehand. You can of course dry to drive them out of the fenced areas then repair, but a roe will leap a 6 or 7 foot fence from a standing start and if he wants to return, he will. I would try both ways, cull a few, move them out as well, if it's practical time wise. They will soon get the idea that they're not welcome but you will have to put the hours in. Hope I haven't rambled on too much, but I enjoyed my time in deer management. What I did forget to say, when taking the shot, if the beast isn't quite broadside on to you, you can, if he's not aware you are there, is to give a low, brief whistle, he will move slightly to see what's going on. Make sure that you are in the aim when you do it. Alternately, invest in a roe call. As well as bringing the does in, you can bring in a buck, during the rut,  who's following a doe. It's an art form if done correctly and highly enjoyable, even if you don't get a shot, your out and learning every time. Christ, I need a lie down now!

[MattyF]

Excellent post David thank you for your time replying.

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, MattyF said:

I can find where they are getting in and fix but then they are stuck in there... so would need removing completely?

This is what a deer leap does, it's a ramp at a corner which the deer can get over and hopefully not get back in. Traditionally it would be used to get feral deer into a hunting enclosure but it should work to allow them out.

[drinksloe]

On 30/04/2020 at 11:58, MattyF said:

Deere or hare??

 

Just thinking wot age are ur trees Matty??

 

Look quite tall in photo althou narrow stem, 5ish years??

 

Bit different with the hard woods but really if only roe won't do any damage to softwoods after 1st 5 years, hard woods a bit longer.

 

After that u could please ur self wot u do either open a couple of gates so roe can come and go as please, then u won't have to worry about controlling them.

If u keep the fence u will have to carry out some sort of control even after the trees are past a vulnerable age just to keep population healthy.

Even on 30 acres u could have too many deer and health will go downhill,

 

Do u not know any mates that stalk? Get them to have a look at the damage.

Really depends wot u want?

Do u want any deer? Either push them out or shoot them.

Or if not opposed to shooting them and like eating venision and trees past vulnerable age u could make it really attractive to deer and open gates/holes in fences if it adjoins kielder u could probably shoot as many deer as u want as will always keep coming in

 

On 30 acres ur not really need to bother about any technicalities of deer management too much 

[Stubby]

2 hours ago, drinksloe said:

 

Just thinking wot age are ur trees Matty??

 

Look quite tall in photo althou narrow stem, 5ish years??

 

Bit different with the hard woods but really if only roe won't do any damage to softwoods after 1st 5 years, hard woods a bit longer.

 

After that u could please ur self wot u do either open a couple of gates so roe can come and go as please, then u won't have to worry about controlling them.

If u keep the fence u will have to carry out some sort of control even after the trees are past a vulnerable age just to keep population healthy.

Even on 30 acres u could have too many deer and health will go downhill,

 

Do u not know any mates that stalk? Get them to have a look at the damage.

Really depends wot u want?

Do u want any deer? Either push them out or shoot them.

Or if not opposed to shooting them and like eating venision and trees past vulnerable age u could make it really attractive to deer and open gates/holes in fences if it adjoins kielder u could probably shoot as many deer as u want as will always keep coming in

 

On 30 acres ur not really need to bother about any technicalities of deer management too much 

Was talking to head forester and his son yesterday . They were out spotting for deer .  Extra damage occurring due to the Dutch clients not being able to come over for stalking coz of C19 restrictions .  Seems they are going to have to stock up on .308 ammo and do it themselves ... 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Stubby

[drinksloe]

1 hour ago, Stubby said:

Was talking to head forester and his son yesterday . They were out spotting for deer .  Extra damage occurring due to the Dutch clients not being able to come over for stalking coz of C19 restrictions .  Seems they are going to have to stock up on .308 ammo and do it themselves ... 

 

Most forestry companies locally and FC nationally have stopped deer control for the moment due to C19.

 

Will all depend on exact circumstances and the crop being damaged.

Really past the worst time for deer damage fresh vegetation and into buck season ( everything else out of season in Scot) so not the worst time for this to happen if it has to happen.

 

 

Althou the estate wil be losing big bucks as foreign stalkers always pay well ( plus any accom, food etc) the Dutch are always know for wanting decent antlers

[MattyF]

 
Just thinking wot age are ur trees Matty??
 
Look quite tall in photo althou narrow stem, 5ish years??
 
Bit different with the hard woods but really if only roe won't do any damage to softwoods after 1st 5 years, hard woods a bit longer.
 
After that u could please ur self wot u do either open a couple of gates so roe can come and go as please, then u won't have to worry about controlling them.
If u keep the fence u will have to carry out some sort of control even after the trees are past a vulnerable age just to keep population healthy.
Even on 30 acres u could have too many deer and health will go downhill,
 
Do u not know any mates that stalk? Get them to have a look at the damage.
Really depends wot u want?
Do u want any deer? Either push them out or shoot them.
Or if not opposed to shooting them and like eating venision and trees past vulnerable age u could make it really attractive to deer and open gates/holes in fences if it adjoins kielder u could probably shoot as many deer as u want as will always keep coming in
 
On 30 acres ur not really need to bother about any technicalities of deer management too much 

Yeah they are about 4-5 years , they mostly have gone for the broadleaves although they have gone for a few pines along the edges.. I was going to put in for my fire arms myself but that’s all out with the covid thing, I’ve done bits of stalking myself but never actually shot a deer, sat and watched a few from high seats but they where out of season or species been that saved for the German and Dutch shooters.

[drinksloe]

Must admit if u enjoy outdoors and wildlife stalking is a good hobby, more because u spend so much time either walking dead slow or sitting and waiting u see far more wild life than u normally do.

Often get far more enjoyment sitting watching wildlife and deer than pulling trigger.

 

Be worth u sticking ur fac in, with having ur own ground u'll get it no probs.

 

If u adjoin a big forest block u could probably shoot a surprising amount off ur ground if u make it more attractive t them, althou wait a few years till hard woods above browse height.

On 30 acres not by enough to truely sustain a  population but they will constantly move in to fill the void from neighbouring forest.

Once ur trees are up will do little harm anyway wot ever u do.

 

Most off the tree browsing damage will be throu winter time when struggling for food. 

Often deer will target larch or Norway before SS ( horrible jaggy things they are) but I'd imagine ur softwoods will be getting up past vulnerable stage now.

U will get a bit of fraying damage now and again mid summer but usually on the same trees and deer tend to prefer willow so stick a few willow cuttings in to save ur other hard woods.

 

Have u many rabbits or hares??

As I said just looks very low in photo for deer, 

[Rough Hewn]

If anyone needs deer culling, I know a very good guy.
Old Skool tree guy,
ex royal marine.
Knows what he's doing.
Licensed and insured to the hilt.
Message me for contact details.
[emoji106]