Proposed regulation of the sales, distribution and marketing of house coal and wet wood (>20% moisture)

[arboriculturist]

For those on the forum who have not had chance to catch up with why all the fuss about Woodburners and burning wood - well here is a copy and paste excerpt:

 

What is the problem under consideration? Why is government intervention necessary?

 

The UK is obligated under the National Emissions Ceilings Directive (NECD) to reduce emissions of particulate matter with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers or less (PM2.5) alongside other key pollutants, to protect its citizens and environment from the resultant damage.

 

 

I have been banging on about this on other threads but my latest research has brought to light a previously published document (2018) Lead by the Government agency -  Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFFRA). - SEE LINK AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST:

 

They produced a ' Wood burning impact assessment ' and it states ' in consultation with Firewood producers' , etc.etc. This is the first I have heard of it.

This is a hefty document and I have only had chance to briefly read it.

 

On 1st reading there are some glaring errors. They are claiming that it can take up to 2 years to air dry firewood. The average cost to a business to successfully adapt to air dry their Firewood to < 20% MC is circa. £800. They make out that generally people are using wet wood with 40% MC or words to that effect. 

 

There is no reference to the fact that probably the majority of dry seasoned firewood is sold by smaller retailers who market around 100 - 250 m3 /year at around 20 - 25%.

 

What is really annoying is that there is no consideration given to the actual fact that the increase in emissions of particulate matter with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers or less (PM2.5) between burning firewood <20% MC and at 25% MC is without any doubt in my mind 100% negligible - once you factor in the  emissions of particulate matter produced when many producers would be forced to kiln dry to achieve the < 20% MC target, especially in the winter months. Added to that the huge raft of pollution that comes from road hauling / shipping thousands of 40ft container loads of kiln dried firewood from Russia , Latvia etc. etc.

 

I would like to see 'evidence based data' on comparable laboratory trials where burning 25 % MC firewood with 20% MC firewood. I think this is key to the whole argument.

 

In addition where are the impact assessments on UK based wood drying kilns and similar assessments for the containers of kiln dried firewood transported from overseas?

 

This is basic math:   emissions from burning firewood @ 20% MC + emissions from burning fuel to achieve the 20% MC (UK or overseas) + transportation VERSUS    emissions from burning firewood @ 25% MC (air dried) - - -  THIS IS WHAT WE MUST LOBBY FOR !!!

 

Going about lobbying for a revision towards a maximum 25% MC threshold for dry firewood sales to Government before the proposed legislation is implemented would be no easy feat and I am uncertain if there are forum members who could take the lead?

 

Draw your own conclusions - Here it is:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/733368/domestic-burning-consultation-ia.pdf

Edited February 28, 2020 by arboriculturist

[Stere]

Quote

They are claiming that it can take up to 2 years to air dry firewood.

From my experience Oak does/can  takes that long also euc sems to take ages  unless split down small then it alot quicker.

 

All depends on how good your seasoning set up is.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Stere

[arboriculturist]

34 minutes ago, Stere said:

From my experience Oak does/can  takes that long also euc sems to take ages  unless split down small then it alot quicker.

 

All depends on how good your seasoning set up is.

What is annoying is they are making a blanket statement, no mention of drying conditions, species etc.

 

Yes, in a huge heap in a barn chunky Oak logs could take 5 years or more, whereas in stillages outside Ash could take very few months in summer to achieve 20%.

 

There was far far to little consultation with producers before dishing out often unsupported information to the media, which has now been fed into the public arena, in addition to proposing to bring in legislation that will ultimately affect thousands of smaller firewood producers !!!

 

I am not keen to take this 'lying down'.

[Gary Prentice]

36 minutes ago, arboriculturist said:

What is annoying is they are making a blanket statement, no mention of drying conditions, species etc.

 

Yes, in a huge heap in a barn chunky Oak logs could take 5 years or more, whereas in stillages outside Ash could take very few months in summer to achieve 20%.

 

There was far far to little consultation with producers before dishing out often unsupported information to the media, which has now been fed into the public arena, in addition to proposing to bring in legislation that will ultimately affect thousands of smaller firewood producers !!!

 

I am not keen to take this 'lying down'.

The government making rash, poorly informed decisions, in a rush to jump on a band-wagon? Well, bless my giddy aunt, who'd have thunk it?

[Big Jase]

Will there be a Government grant scheme for smaller companies to buy kilns ect ??

[Big J]

One of the main issues is that there is no mention made of adequate storage for end users. The whole process of drying timber and conforming to ever tightening regulations is completely irrelevant if the customer doesn't store their wood correctly. 

 

Tarp over the top of the firewood is not sufficient. A little lean to at the side of the house is not sufficient. A well ventilated shed with a substantial overhang is what is required. By all means, stack it outside without a cover over summer, but for a period before final use, it needs to be covered with very good airflow. This has been my store for the past 7 years. It worked so well that I brought it down from Scotland to Devon:

 

 

I am wholeheartedly against the sale of dried firewood, if I'm being honest. It puts all of the onus on the retailer to absorb the cost of storing it, locked up capital as well as having a delivery method that somehow keeps it dry whilst it's being delivered at the wettest time of year.

 

Hopefully the new legislation will boost green timber sales. The savings customers would make from buying fresh and seasoning themselves would easily pay for a good woodstore, and it'd make the lives of retailers much easier. 

 

And on the topic of kilns, whilst I don't begrudge anyone that has them (especially if RHI funded), the notion of burning timber to dry timber for burning is total and complete nonsense. There is absolutely no justification for it, except for supplying a marketplace where the average customer is an idiot who doesn't know the first thing about how to light or maintain a fire, let alone store and dry firewood.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Big J

[Rough Hewn]

One of the main issues is that there is no mention made of adequate storage for end users. The whole process of drying timber and conforming to ever tightening regulations is completely irrelevant if the customer doesn't store their wood correctly. 
 
Tarp over the top of the firewood is not sufficient. A little lean to at the side of the house is not sufficient. A well ventilated shed with a substantial overhang is what is required. By all means, stack it outside without a cover over summer, but for a period before final use, it needs to be covered with very good airflow. This has been my store for the past 7 years. It worked so well that I brought it down from Scotland to Devon:
 

 
I am wholeheartedly against the sale of dried firewood, if I'm being honest. It puts all of the onus on the retailer to absorb the cost of storing it, locked up capital as well as having a delivery method that somehow keeps it dry whilst it's being delivered at the wettest time of year.
 
Hopefully the new legislation will boost green timber sales. The savings customers would make from buying fresh and seasoning themselves would easily pay for a good woodstore, and it'd make the lives of retailers much easier. 
 
And on the topic of kilns, whilst I don't begrudge anyone that has them (especially if RHI funded), the notion of burning timber to dry timber for burning is total and complete nonsense. There is absolutely no justification for it, except for supplying a marketplace where the average customer is an idiot who doesn't know the first thing about how to light or maintain a fire, let alone store and dry firewood.

But J the problem has always been ignorance on behalf of end users.
Taking the onus away from the public and into the hands of professionals is a benefit.
I don't sell one year seasoned oak of beech because it won't burn.
Ash,syc,birch etc will.
We know that 20-25% mc air dried is the most environmentally friendly fuel you can get.
I have started selling unseasoned wood, but only to clued up clients.
It's the convenience of the buy it now culture we have in this country, so let them pay more.
I don't even advertise firewood and I sell out each winter.
Now if it's got to be 20% I'll have to build a roof between two containers.
Dried firewood at 20% mc guaranteed at point of sale.
£150 a cube?
Next winter will be interesting.

[openspaceman]

12 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

Now if it's got to be 20% I'll have to build a roof between two containers.

Good idea, make a bender with a transparent sheet and get some solar gain too.

[Rough Hewn]

Good idea, make a bender with a transparent sheet and get some solar gain too.

I wish. That would be great.
But my yard is high on the edge of the moors.
2' beams, heavy duty steel roofing panels and a dozen IBC's full of logs to hold it all down.
Otherwise it'll blow away.
Another bloody expense.
[emoji23][emoji106]

[openspaceman]

54 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

I wish. That would be great.
But my yard is high on the edge of the moors.
2' beams, heavy duty steel roofing panels and a dozen IBC's full of logs to hold it all down.
Otherwise it'll blow away.
Another bloody expense.

40ft (12m) Container Canopy 10m Wide

WWW.BUDGETSHIPPINGCONTAINERS.CO.UK

---

10 Metres of covered space between 2x 40ft shipping containers 5 year manufacturer warranty High Tensile...

 

 

there seem to be a number of firms offering this, presumably you use the top locks to fix it to the container and it must be possible to get a translucent or clear covering