Topping young tree

[Stephen Blair]

Thanks Chris, excellent reply.

Most  definitely an old school method that up until 2 minutes ago I would of thought was the way.

  I’ll save your post and read a few times to absorb.

 Many thanks .

[Chris at eden]

51 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

370,000,000 years ago - trees arrive

Fair comment.

51 minutes ago, AHPP said:

200,000 years ago - humans arrive

Not Homo Sapiens.  And the cognitive revolution was only 70,000 years ago so no ability to manage anything (including risk) before that.  

51 minutes ago, AHPP said:

1000 years ago - modern legal system emerges in UK - people now definitely responsible for their property damaging other people's property

970 years of people being responsible for their trees causing damage etc goes happily by

30 years ago - internet arrives, lets people more effectively swap ideas about how to scare people into unnecessary tree work, people act like fannies about perceived liability hiding behind every photon

The first occupiers liability act was 1957, that was the game changer for liability.  I agree that health and safety can be over the top but that wont wash with the judge will it.    

51 minutes ago, AHPP said:

 

We're talking about things like silver birches in a McDonalds car park.

I was talking about formative pruning in general as a way to cheaply mitigate future risk.  

51 minutes ago, AHPP said:

They'll be dead from drought, compaction or the need to put a bin where they were before they're twelve feet tall anyway.

Can't argue with that on most sites.    

51 minutes ago, AHPP said:

It's not a two tonne limb from a heritage oak that could fall on a picnic in Hyde Park.

 

Again I was talking generally about formative pruning.  You said it was bollocks, its not.  Proper formative pruning can reduce the future risk of that two tonne limb in Hyde Park - it wont though as its not a priority. 

[Mick Dempsey]

21 minutes ago, Chris at eden said:

That is why I said most.  

They still pruned it as it was hitting the window, not for the good of the tree.  The movement over time will lead to the formation of stem taper stabilising the tree.  

I agree.  It has also lost its apical bud so will almost certainly form with multiple leaders - a defect for the future.  Kind of the opposite of formative pruning. 

I never claimed any formative pruning was at play.

A birch is a short term amenity tree (certainly if it’s close enough to the house to slap the window) The client couldn’t sit there for years watching (and listening), waiting for stem taper to manifest itself, something had to be done, so 5ft was taken off which solved the problem.

If, over the course of the next few years, some multiple leaders appear, so what? Trim it or fell it when it’s no longer wanted.

 

[Chris at eden]

8 minutes ago, Stephen Blair said:

Thanks Chris, excellent reply.

Most  definitely an old school method that up until 2 minutes ago I would of thought was the way.

  I’ll save your post and read a few times to absorb.

 Many thanks .

No worries mate.  If its still around 21 years later I doubt you are doing too much wrong.  Just as an add on, the wound response of deciduous trees during the winter is pretty much zero so no compartmentalisation at that time.  Birch doesn't have a durable heartwood, suffers when the sapwood dries out (when not pumping up water - winter), and has a latent coloniser (always) + plus most of the other decay fungi sporulate during the autumn leading into winter.  I will let you decide when the worst time to prune based on this is. 

 

To be fair its all pretty academic and in reality tree surgeons prune all year round usually with no ill effects as long as the cuts are kept to a minimum size, but if you want to be all scientific about it, that is how I would look at it.

     

[AHPP]

11 minutes ago, Chris at eden said:

I agree that health and safety can be over the top but that wont wash with the judge will it.   

Yes it will. Tomlinson v Congleton.

[Chris at eden]

4 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

I never claimed any formative pruning was at play.

A birch is a short term amenity tree (certainly if it’s close enough to the house to slap the window) The client couldn’t sit there for years watching (and listening), waiting for stem taper to manifest itself, something had to be done, so 5ft was taken off which solved the problem.

If, over the course of the next few years, some multiple leaders appear, so what? Trim it or fell it when it’s no longer wanted.

 

Think we have our wires crossed somewhere Mick.  I was just saying formative pruning isn't bollocks (more to the other chap), its just not carried out. I agree with your other comments but the OP was asking for advice.  

 

[Khriss]

..... Anyway. I don't really like reducing Birch. They ARE short lived - enjoy it, let other trees grow up around it then fell it. Its a Pioneer spp. Woodlands n Industrial sites not a stand alone Ornamental ( like  Kev  ?  )  K

[Chris at eden]

22 minutes ago, AHPP said:

Yes it will. Tomlinson v Congleton.

That wasn't based on health and safety being over the top, it was the claimants inappropriate use of the site despite all the warning and precautions they had put in place.   

[Chris at eden]

8 minutes ago, Khriss said:

..... Anyway. I don't really like reducing Birch. They ARE short lived - enjoy it, let other trees grow up around it then fell it. Its a Pioneer spp. Woodlands n Industrial sites not a stand alone Ornamental ( like  Kev  ?  )  K

Quite good as street trees also - apart from the shallow roots under paving issue.  

[Stephen Blair]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Birch as a street tree.

  Not old ones anyway, I’ll keep an eye out next time I venture into the big smoke!