Our industry

[Mesterh]

Hey I said many not all.

 

I'm just posting on behalf of all the members that are to scared to go against the grain.

 

Plus its raining again outside so no work and I'm bored.

[Czlowiek Drzewo]

I like to consider myself in both camps Tony. I don't love trees enough to get bogged down by the science and bilogy side of things but I also don't love money anywhere near enough for that to be the motivating factor.

 

Its work, and its outside and its involves climbing/logic/planning and a nerdy desire to collect shiny gadgets.

 

I like doing nice work to nice trees, but bad tree work is still tree management and "trees" in general don't suffer from individual cases of bad work and many thrive after poor decisions have been made in the past.

 

So as far as our industry is concerned, yes I think we have a way over inflated sense of our own importance, they are only trees and we are only service providers.

 

I have done some research as to what the client expectations were prior to engaging a contractor. The answers seem consistanlty to suggest the most clients expect some halfwit inbred with fingers missing or a beardy weardy to turn up three days late, if at all, and do some grunting before leaving them with a quote written in crayon on the back of a rizzla packet.

 

Many clients just don't believe that relatively educated and presentable humans would be doing such a job, and so their expectations are so low that in many cases they accept un-insured bodgers (or boskers) as being the norm, and just don't bother trying to find anybody better.

 

Until this image is changed we will forever fight this battle, but for many its not worth it and I personally look toward commercial contracts where a level of proffessionalism is required/expected, then all I need to do is deliver instead of havign to try and educate each individual that wants there one and only self seeded sycamore reduced by 50% because it blocks direct light for the one day of the year they want to use the garden.

 

totally agree with you there.

 

when i am pricing and feel a costumer thinks its an easy job or that we are just a bunch of smelly lumberjaxs i make sure to bring allthe gear from arborcoms to all the rigging gear and then proceed to rig down a tree that i could have cut n chucked just so i can show them theres a lot more too it than scrammbling up a tree and slicing branches. when i get a feeling that they think we are dumb lumberjax i use fancy tree boilogy words to confuse them then explain what it means....whos dumb now! lol

[Amelanchier]

Sorry Paul, missed this first time around.

 

But we have been trying to say this stuff haven't we?

 

Well as Johnston points out in his article - some of the industry have but some haven't. From my point of view as a 'desk orientated arborist', I don't want to hear soundbites about the AA battering the BBC over the ubiquity of poor planting - I expect that, its a given. I want to hear about how my industry body plans to secure our involvement in the future of tree management before everyone decides they can do it without us.

 

I've attached another recent Forest Research publication as a further case in point. Arboricultural research without Arboriculturalists. Are we only useful when trees break or get in the way of building something?

 

Do you think the Marmot Review will carry any more weight or have any more influence than TIT2?

 

I don't know. It might in terms of getting trees in the ground but none of these review documents (TIT2 included) come with an indication of impact. In one way it'd be nice if it did, a progression of the aim of Arb but in another it would be deeply disappointing given that we would simply be watching on the sidelines. Again.

SERG_Amenity_values_of_street_trees.pdf

[Mike Hill]

I think its right to remove/prune trees because its blocking the light, shedding leaves, blocking the sky signal, drops aphid sap everywhere, nesting/roosting bird mess everywhere, worries people when the wind gets up etc etc etc.....

 

Why not?

 

Lifes too short to have to deal with the above so why not remove it.

 

Thats why are industry was born imo so lets not complain about needlessly felling/pruning trees when without it there would hardly be an industry at all.

 

Spot on!

 

People call us with a problem they cannot or do not want to solve themselves.

If I had tried to talk every customer out of "needlessly" felling every Tree that I would have myself kept,it would have been a huge waste of time and a large cost in Money.

[Rupe]

totally agree with you there.

 

when i am pricing and feel a costumer thinks its an easy job or that we are just a bunch of smelly lumberjaxs i make sure to bring allthe gear from arborcoms to all the rigging gear and then proceed to rig down a tree that i could have cut n chucked just so i can show them theres a lot more too it than scrammbling up a tree and slicing branches. when i get a feeling that they think we are dumb lumberjax i use fancy tree boilogy words to confuse them then explain what it means....whos dumb now! lol

 

Thats the total opposite of what I was saying.

 

If the customer thinks its easy and a dumb lumberjack could do it then let them get a dumb lumberjack. If you want to try and convince them its really hard, just to make yourself feel better then good for you. What I was trying to say is that that is a waste of time. Just agree with them thats its easy and get on with it.

 

There is nothing more to it than scrambling up a tree and slicing some branches. If you use fancy words to confuse someone then that is poor communication, and will make you look dumb if you are unable to explain things in a straightforward manner.

 

The real skill (when necessary) is to not use ANY fancy words, but explain things that make sense in one easy go. You have about 1minute to explain each job.

 

What I was saying above is that I DON'T try and educate or embelish our work in any way. Please read my post again if you think you missed something.

 

One of the things I said was

 

So as far as our industry is concerned, yes I think we have a way over inflated sense of our own importance, they are only trees and we are only service providers.

 

I think getting all the kit out to try and prove how important we are illustrates my point quite well!!

[Czlowiek Drzewo]

Thats the total opposite of what I was saying.

 

If the customer thinks its easy and a dumb lumberjack could do it then let them get a dumb lumberjack. If you want to try and convince them its really hard, just to make yourself feel better then good for you. What I was trying to say is that that is a waste of time. Just agree with them thats its easy and get on with it.

 

There is nothing more to it than scrambling up a tree and slicing some branches. If you use fancy words to confuse someone then that is poor communication, and will make you look dumb if you are unable to explain things in a straightforward manner.

 

The real skill (when necessary) is to not use ANY fancy words, but explain things that make sense in one easy go. You have about 1minute to explain each job.

 

What I was saying above is that I DON'T try and educate or embelish our work in any way. Please read my post again if you think you missed something.

 

One of the things I said was

 

So as far as our industry is concerned, yes I think we have a way over inflated sense of our own importance, they are only trees and we are only service providers.

 

I think getting all the kit out to try and prove how important we are illustrates my point quite well!!

 

rupe, what i was trying to say is that up here in glasgow about 70% of costumers don't know what tree work is really about..they think we are landscapers that have only got basic felling ticket ( dumb lumberjax ). yeah i try to impress costumers..because when they really see what its about and the equipment and skill involved they change there attitude towards us and pass my number onto all the friends. yeah i buy fancy gear and shiny toys because it makes my business stand out from pikeys with white transits..which explains why i get most of the work i quote for.

 

I think tree surgeons are mostly looked at as dumb lumberjax..and i think we all should try to show and explain to our costumers what the difference between pikeys and professional arborists is.

 

they has been many occasions where i have been rigging down stem when i could have felled it or chubked it down..simply because-i enjoy it and i want to show the the costumer whats involved and i always get them coming out asking whats that for and they are really impressed.

[Mesterh]

The thing that impresses most of my customers is how good a job we do with the rake and blower!

 

They seem to miss the bit were we spent 3 days removing 10 ton of ivy ridden pop without smashing there green house, fences and lawn to bits.

 

Although I'm not that impressive to look at and I doubt my climbing skills are that entertaining.

[arb culture]

I don't want to hear soundbites about the AA battering the BBC over the ubiquity of poor planting - I expect that, its a given. I want to hear about how my industry body plans to secure our involvement in the future of tree management before everyone decides they can do it without us.

 

Absolutely agree with you.

 

Trouble is though that arbs keep fighting among themselves rather than pulling along together.

 

I sometimes wonder what the layman thinks when you get two or three qualified arbs all looking at the same tree and all coming to very different conclusions.

[skyhuck]

I think its right to remove/prune trees because its blocking the light, shedding leaves, blocking the sky signal, drops aphid sap everywhere, nesting/roosting bird mess everywhere, worries people when the wind gets up etc etc etc.....

 

Why not?

 

Lifes too short to have to deal with the above so why not remove it.

 

Thats why are industry was born imo so lets not complain about needlessly felling/pruning trees when without it there would hardly be an industry at all.

 

 

People call us with a problem they cannot or do not want to solve themselves.

If I had tried to talk every customer out of "needlessly" felling every Tree that I would have myself kept,it would have been a huge waste of time and a large cost in Money.

 

The thing that impresses most of my customers is how good a job we do with the rake and blower!

 

They seem to miss the bit were we spent 3 days removing 10 ton of ivy ridden pop without smashing there green house, fences and lawn to bits.

 

:

 

:congrats:

[skyhuck]

[*] Trees are keystone species, the lungs of the world, genetic factories and where you me and especialy all these hairy arsed arbs in here evolved from (some more evolved than others! )

 

if the guardians of these key stone species are not entitled to a high self value and importance, who the flipping heck is?

 

confused1:

 

I believe 98% of the worlds oxygen is produced by algae in the sea.

 

Many forests fix little or no carbon, as the carbon being fixed by the trees is the same or less than that being produced by the organisms digesting dead and dying matter on the forest floor.

 

Planting young trees, harvesting them in early maturity and using the timber in a way that keeps the carbon locked up for years or burning it instead of fossil fuel, is the greenest way to use trees.