Should a referendum on Scottish independence only include people living in Scotland?

[Johnsond]

12 hours ago, Mull said:

 

 

Of course scale is relevant!

Hundreds or millions?

If someone owed me a tenner and someone owed me a grand...which would hurt me more?

 

 

The principle is what is relevant, if I owe money I owe money be it £10 or £1000. The obligation to pay is no different regardless of the amount. All this is just greed and envy politics. As was quoted before one persons idea of rich is very different to another’s ie that greedy little incompetent bugger Mackay masquerading as the SNP finance minister claims if you earn over £43350 you are rich !!!!!  That figure in my eyes certainly does not even begin to make you rich. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Johnsond

[the village idiot]

1 hour ago, Johnsond said:

that greedy little incompetent bugger Mackay masquerading as the SNP finance minister claims if you earn over £43350 you are rich !!!!!  That figure in my eyes certainly does not even begin to make you rich. 

It's really just a matter of perspective.

 

Your Mr Mackay's figure begins to look rather conservative when you consider that the global average wage is £13,800 per year (adjusted for the buying power of your earnings in each individual country).

 

According to The Scotsman median wage earnings for the full time employed in Scotland is £23,150. 

 

If you are earning nearly double the national average and nearly triple the global average I think there is a case to be made that relatively speaking you are doing pretty well financially.

 

 

[trigger_andy]

It's really just a matter of perspective.
 
Your Mr Mackay's figure begins to look rather conservative when you consider that the global average wage is £13,800 per year (adjusted for the buying power of your earnings in each individual country).
 
According to The Scotsman median wage earnings for the full time employed in Scotland is £23,150. 
 
If you are earning nearly double the national average and nearly triple the global average I think there is a case to be made that relatively speaking you are doing pretty well financially.
 
 

Doing “pretty well” is not rich though. When there are families on the dole being handed the equivalent and in more than few instances greater then £45k a year can hardly be considered rich. It’s a labelling ploy by the SNP to stir up resentment with those who earn less, or nothing and as a justification to keep taxing anyone who earns an above average wage.

[Johnsond]

18 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

It's really just a matter of perspective.

 

Your Mr Mackay's figure begins to look rather conservative when you consider that the global average wage is £13,800 per year (adjusted for the buying power of your earnings in each individual country).

 

According to The Scotsman median wage earnings for the full time employed in Scotland is £23,150. 

 

If you are earning nearly double the national average and nearly triple the global average I think there is a case to be made that relatively speaking you are doing pretty well financially.

 

 

Raising kids, paying a mortgage, everyday bills and taxes , trying and failing right now I may add to put enough away for the time when I may not be able to work !! The pension time bomb that is awaiting millions etc etc means that 43350  as a gross before tax figure is not that much to classify you as rich, it is as Andy says a political decision by some  to label those who want to get on in life as something they are not in order to pander to a perceived larger voter base. I’ve read some of your posts and acknowledge that sometimes money is not the be all and end all of everything but unfortunately in the current world we live in without it you are gonna struggle. Am I doing the right thing being on the treadmill, spending months away from my family etc etc I often think not but until I can come up with a solution that is not going to affect them dramatically then I’m stuck with it. Me personally ref the tax I’ve no probs paying into the system but as I’ve said before I believe it should be massively simplified in as much as 25% for all after a set figure of tax free earnings. To me that would hugely encourage the work and enterprise mentality. 

 

[the village idiot]

2 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

Doing “pretty well” is not rich though. When there are families on the dole being handed the equivalent and in more than few instances greater then £45k a year can hardly be considered rich. It’s a labelling ploy by the SNP to stir up resentment with those who earn less, or nothing and as a justification to keep taxing anyone who earns an above average wage.

 

Maybe.

 

It's too easy to point towards the instances where a benefit 'safety net' lets too much through and claim that this shows that the whole system is flawed.

 

No benefits system will be perfect, but without some kind of balancing mechanism between the have's and have not's you will end up with a totally dysfunctional economy. That's not to say that any particular system can't be improved upon of course. 

 

It's also probably true that you will only poison your own sense of wellbeing by getting agitated about others getting stuff for free. Life will never be fair, and there are much deeper positive gains available to you if you can start to see past the 'ever increasing bank balance=ever increasing happiness' illusion.

 

Some benefits recipients are 'scroungers' many many more are not. With a little bit of mental re-framing you might be able to start feeling good about the fact that you are helping a lot of people out who have not been dealt a good hand.

[Johnsond]

15 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

Maybe.

 

It's too easy to point towards the instances where a benefit 'safety net' lets too much through and claim that this shows that the whole system is flawed.

 

No benefits system will be perfect, but without some kind of balancing mechanism between the have's and have not's you will end up with a totally dysfunctional economy. That's not to say that any particular system can't be improved upon of course. 

 

It's also probably true that you will only poison your own sense of wellbeing by getting agitated about others getting stuff for free. Life will never be fair, and there are much deeper positive gains available to you if you can start to see past the 'ever increasing bank balance=ever increasing happiness' illusion.

 

Some benefits recipients are 'scroungers' many many more are not. With a little bit of mental re-framing you might be able to start feeling good about the fact that you are helping a lot of people out who have not been dealt a good hand.

No indeed life will need be fair but as long as people buy into this perception that it’s ok to tax the rich ( Rich as in 40/41% tax payers) heavily then the chance of getting yourself up and into a comfortable position is very slim. The system is geared to keeping things as they are, I’m not sure what you mean ref a balancing mechanism but surely they best way to offer an equal chance to all is to give everyone the same playing field ie you work hard you pay tax at 25% into the system. You work a bit harder you still pay more of the same !!! Rather than getting penalised for trying to get on in life. As much as many may love  to see the so called rich getting bumped for tax in reality it’s an illusion that will only serve to keep joe average working guy in his place. 

[trigger_andy]

19 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

It's too easy to point towards the instances where a benefit 'safety net' lets too much through and claim that this shows that the whole system is flawed.

Its not 'too easy' at all. Its a clear indication that if people are getting this in benefits then people who earn this as a wage are not themselves rich. 

 

20 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

No benefits system will be perfect,

But now we have the Tories back in power with a large majority it should be getting slightly more perfect over the next 5 years.  

 

21 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

It's also probably true that you will only poison your own sense of wellbeing by getting agitated about others getting stuff for free. Life will never be fair, and there are much deeper positive gains available to you if you can start to see past the 'ever increasing bank balance=ever increasing happiness' illusion.

Im not sure if you're just musing or actually directing that comment at me, but if you are then your assumptions are quite wrong.  

 

22 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

Some benefits recipients are 'scroungers' many many more are not.

Most are, some are not. 

 

23 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

With a little bit of mental re-framing you might be able to start feeling good about the fact that you are helping a lot of people out who have not been dealt a good hand.

With a little bit of mental re-framing you might wake up and smell the coffee of reality, but as they say, ignorance is bliss and going by the tripe you just posted you must be in utopia. 

[the village idiot]

4 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

With a little bit of mental re-framing you might wake up and smell the coffee of reality, but as they say, ignorance is bliss and going by the tripe you just posted you must be in utopia.

?

 

My understanding of how reality actually works is so fundamentally different from yours that my opinions are never going to make much sense to you.

 

A lot of my thoughts on reality are actually so counter intuitive that they probably don't make much sense to just about anybody!

 

I think my perspective is often too broad to be of much use in threads on specific political issues, and I'm not really in it for the arguments. It may be best if I stick to Woodlands.?

[trigger_andy]

[emoji1]
 
My understanding of how reality actually works is so fundamentally different from yours that my opinions are never going to make much sense to you.
 
A lot of my thoughts on reality are actually so counter intuitive that they probably don't make much sense to just about anybody!
 
I think my perspective is often too broad to be of much use in threads on specific political issues, and I'm not really in it for the arguments. It may be best if I stick to Woodlands.[emoji846]

Please stay. it’s good to have differing opinions, I just found that last post quite condescending.

[the village idiot]

17 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

Please stay. it’s good to have differing opinions, I just found that last post quite condescending.

 

Thanks Andy,

 

I don't think you were around last time I went balls deep on my understanding of the human condition. It served no purpose other than to convince people I had lost my mind.

 

A thread on the merits of Scottish independence is not a good platform for me to go off on a philosophical bender.

 

You may well not trust my judgement generally and that is fine, but trust me on this one.