An Idiot's guide to Ancient Woodland management

[the village idiot]

36 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

The thing I'm struggling with at the moment is bats and mature trees. I live on the edge of some ancient woodland and I need to sort out what I do with the mature ash trees that are going to die off with ADB. I'll make that a separate topic.

I went to a Woodland Communication event yesterday. One of the speakers was from Natural England and was detailing the latest guidance on managing woodland with Ash dieback.

 

Encouragingly there is some evidence from follow up studies in Europe that resistance rates in woodland Ash populations could be as high as 40%. This is an average of course so there is no guarantee that all individual sites will see this level of survival. 

 

From what I could gather current advice on woodland management practices are as follows and depends somewhat on the frequency and age of Ash within the Woodland:

 

High Forest: Moderate  thinning operations targeting the worst affected trees can help improve the survival rates of more tolerant trees in the stand and allow light in to encourage the growth of potentially resistant saplings. Care must be taken though not to 'over thin' as this can have a negative effect on the trees left standing.

 

Coppice: 'In rotation' coppice Ash should continue to be felled. The biodiversity losses from ceasing coppicing would be too detrimental. For out of rotation Ash coppice the advice is to retain large stools if not subject to imminent collapse, especially if they are seed producing (female). It is also suggested that converting the coppice system to an alternative silvicultural system could be considered.

 

Deer management is paramount to give the best chance of natural regeneration of Chalara resistant saplings.

 

There is more detail in the table below. It relates specifically to SSSI woodlands but is probably fairly applicable to any woodland containing significant quantities of Ash.

 

 

The full guidance document is linked to below, including a copy of the table above that the over 40's among us won't need a telescope to read.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/811166/NE_FC_Ash_dieback_SSSI_management_advice_V2_April_19.pdf

 

 

[Khriss]

On 16/12/2019 at 20:33, the village idiot said:

TREE JACK.

 

One of the most frustrating events in the woods is getting a tree hung up. This happens when you don't manage to get your hinge lined up properly and the tree you are felling falls into a neighbouring tree rather than onto the ground.

 

Sometimes a tree is leaning over in such a way that you really have no choice but to fell it into another tree.

 

Hung up trees are difficult, time consuming and somewhat dangerous to get down. There are various ways of tackling a hung up tree but your best option is to not let it happen in the first place. A tree jack is your best friend here. We were using ours today so I took the opportunity to take a picture.

 

 

A tree jack is simply an extending pole with a flat foot at the base and a toothed gripper at the top. It is extended using the windy handle thingy on the side. It is very useful for encouraging trees to fall in the opposite direction from the one they would naturally take. It's also good for trees that you can't quite decide which way it wants to go.

 

To use it, you lean the jack against the stem pointing in the direction you want the tree to fall. You give it a few winds until it is under tension. You then do your normal felling cuts, leaving a slightly bigger hinge than normal so the tree remains standing. You then wind the handle which extends the jack until the tree starts to go over. You then make like a tree and leave.

 

The tree jack is excellent for slight 'back leaners' or trees on the edge of a compartment that you want to make sure fall into the coup.

 

If the tree is big and heavy the foot of the jack has a tendency to sink down into the ground. You can counter this by sticking a log ring under the foot or securing a strong strap under the foot and around the base of the tree (under the gob obviously). This stops the jack from sinking or sliding backwards.

 

These tree jacks come in a variety of different sizes. The one in the picture is mid-range. They are amazingly strong but I can assure you that they can be bent if put in the hands of someone who has occasionally been known to push their luck.?

 

They can be used in conjunction with felling wedges to manipulate particularly stubborn stems.

 

I probably wouldn't use the jack on a stem I thought had a chance of barber chairing. You do have to be positioned directly behind the tree to wind the handle. Always safer to be off to the side in these scenarios.

 

Good quality tree jacks are quite expensive but incredibly useful bits of kit. If anyone fancies a free one they can come and find my original jack which the woodland claimed as it's own a couple of years back. I have a sneaky suspicion that a gang of delinquent stoats had away with it. They are crafty little devils.

I find this....

 

10 Ton Porta Power Hydraulic Jack Body Frame Portable Industrial-level Lift Ram

WWW.EBAY.CO.UK

---

2.0m/6.56ft Porta Power Hydraulic Jack. This is a heavy duty hydraulic jack kit include 15 pieces for auto body repair. Constructed with steel & cast iron, adopt 10 tons ram, this kit...

Does the job. Also amazingly useful in workshop. More to carry in the woods, but I did a line of edge-conifers roadside and it breezed them over.  K

 

[Woodsman1967]

6 hours ago, the village idiot said:

I went to a Woodland Communication event yesterday. One of the speakers was from Natural England and was detailing the latest guidance on managing woodland with Ash dieback.

 

Encouragingly there is some evidence from follow up studies in Europe that resistance rates in woodland Ash populations could be as high as 40%. This is an average of course so there is no guarantee that all individual sites will see this level of survival. 

 

From what I could gather current advice on woodland management practices are as follows and depends somewhat on the frequency and age of Ash within the Woodland:

 

High Forest: Moderate  thinning operations targeting the worst affected trees can help improve the survival rates of more tolerant trees in the stand and allow light in to encourage the growth of potentially resistant saplings. Care must be taken though not to 'over thin' as this can have a negative effect on the trees left standing.

 

Coppice: 'In rotation' coppice Ash should continue to be felled. The biodiversity losses from ceasing coppicing would be too detrimental. For out of rotation Ash coppice the advice is to retain large stools if not subject to imminent collapse, especially if they are seed producing (female). It is also suggested that converting the coppice system to an alternative silvicultural system could be considered.

 

Deer management is paramount to give the best chance of natural regeneration of Chalara resistant saplings.

 

There is more detail in the table below. It relates specifically to SSSI woodlands but is probably fairly applicable to any woodland containing significant quantities of Ash.

 

 

The full guidance document is linked to below, including a copy of the table above that the over 40's among us won't need a telescope to read.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/811166/NE_FC_Ash_dieback_SSSI_management_advice_V2_April_19.pdf

 

 

All sounds like a bit of a nightmare to me . It may look viable on paper, but in a wood similar to the one I'm currently working in ( full of large overstood ash stools and huge ash standards ) it wouldn't be economically worth doing . It's hard enough to scrape a living from working in the woods now without being left with only some 'thinnings' to survive on !

 

Coppicing only the understory and smaller stools would leave far to much canopy and shade for any regrowth to thrive , and potentially (probably ) leave a wood full of dangerous dead ash trees in the very near future . I'm already leaving any decent size tree that's not ash so as there will be something left in a few years , how can I also leave all the big ash as well ?

 

From what I've seen of woods in East Anglia there is no chance of a 40% survival rate , maybe 10-20% at best and probably less than that  . Surely it would be better to do a visual survey of the plot in late summer , select the best trees that are as yet uninfected and fell/coppice  the rest ?

So much of our beautiful ancient woodland is already virtually derelict and desperately in need of working and bringing back into cycle that standing back and watching all the ash die and collapse onto the understory is not a very good strategy

[the village idiot]

11 minutes ago, Woodsman1967 said:

Surely it would be better to do a visual survey of the plot in late summer , select the best trees that are as yet uninfected and fell/coppice  the rest ?

I don't think you'd get any comeback if you adopted this approach. It sounds sensible, hopefully keeps you viable and is close enough to the best practice guidelines.

 

After a couple more years we should have a clearer picture on what trees are going to make it and which aren't.

 

What they are probably trying to prevent is a knee jerk mass felling of Ash.

 

The speaker seemed much more concerned about Deer management than anything else.

[Woodsman1967]

7 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

I don't think you'd get any comeback if you adopted this approach. It sounds sensible, hopefully keeps you viable and is close enough to the best practice guidelines.

 

After a couple more years we should have a clearer picture on what trees are going to make it and which aren't.

 

What they are probably trying to prevent is a knee jerk mass felling of Ash.

 

The speaker seemed much more concerned about Deer management than anything else.

Yes of course it's vital to try and keep any resistant ash and there will be some .

 

Maybe I'm a bit jaded from 20 years of being a contractor in SSSI woods and having to listen to well read and  well meaning , usually lovely people turning up on site with totally impratical  ideas of how I should do my 'job' only to find that a year or 2 later they have moved on to pastures new and been replaced by someone else with totally different ideas !

 

And yes , deer management should be right at the top of the agenda . It's a huge issue

[Silverhooker]

I couldn’t agree more about deer control, they do tremendous damage to young trees round my way and they’re numbers are going through the roof.

[The avantgardener]

24 minutes ago, Silverhooker said:

I couldn’t agree more about deer control, they do tremendous damage to young trees round my way and they’re numbers are going through the roof.

Grey squirrel are even worse than deer down here, at least the deer are being shot or fenced out.

 There is a Woodland Trust site near me that has a 30 year old mixed native hardwood plantation that has been totally destroyed, not a dominant stem left on any tree.

[Svts]

1 hour ago, Woodsman1967 said:

All sounds like a bit of a nightmare to me . It may look viable on paper, but in a wood similar to the one I'm currently working in ( full of large overstood ash stools and huge ash standards ) it wouldn't be economically worth doing . It's hard enough to scrape a living from working in the woods now without being left with only some 'thinnings' to survive on !

 

Coppicing only the understory and smaller stools would leave far to much canopy and shade for any regrowth to thrive , and potentially (probably ) leave a wood full of dangerous dead ash trees in the very near future . I'm already leaving any decent size tree that's not ash so as there will be something left in a few years , how can I also leave all the big ash as well ?

 

From what I've seen of woods in East Anglia there is no chance of a 40% survival rate , maybe 10-20% at best and probably less than that  . Surely it would be better to do a visual survey of the plot in late summer , select the best trees that are as yet uninfected and fell/coppice  the rest ?

So much of our beautiful ancient woodland is already virtually derelict and desperately in need of working and bringing back into cycle that standing back and watching all the ash die and collapse onto the understory is not a very good strategy

This sounds more like it. We've just finished cutting very neglected Ash coppice. Started thinning last year as very little dieback was present. 12 months on it was hammered by it. So plans changed to opening up small clear fells in some badly affected areas. Leaving the (luckily numerous) mature Oak. These will be restocked with Oak. Some stools are six to eight feet across. The regrowth on last years cut was already showing dieback. Some large Ash are being retained for habitat.

Will be very surprised if anywhere near 40% survives. Pretty much all the Hazel regrowth is grazed to nothing by the deer. Very interesting thread btw. 

[organic guy]

VI

Thanks for this brilliant topic. I have read it all and enjoyed it and learnt loads. 

i am an organic farmer with a passion for trees and hedges, hedgelaying  being a hobby. I gave my wife 600 acorns for Christmas a few years ago, 7 different types which I have planted in a field corner.

My retirement plan is to buy some neglected woodland and to build a shepherds hut to stay in while my wife swims in the sea!

If anyone knows of 10 acres of woodland for sale within half an hour of the Devon or Dorset coast let me know please.

[the village idiot]

18 minutes ago, organic guy said:

VI

Thanks for this brilliant topic. I have read it all and enjoyed it and learnt loads. 

i am an organic farmer with a passion for trees and hedges, hedgelaying  being a hobby. I gave my wife 600 acorns for Christmas a few years ago, 7 different types which I have planted in a field corner.

My retirement plan is to buy some neglected woodland and to build a shepherds hut to stay in while my wife swims in the sea!

If anyone knows of 10 acres of woodland for sale within half an hour of the Devon or Dorset coast let me know please.

That sounds like a pretty idyllic retirement plan.

 

I hope you find a nice bit of woodland. 

 

When you do, don't forget to post up some pictures!