Big J on radio 4..

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

4 hours ago, Conor Wright said:

That's what I used, I went through about a dozen large and small farms, some only receive a few hundred, most a modest few thousand. one was in excess of 50k.

I've used the site before. It can be useful when pricing work for "poor ould farmers" which may not be so poor after all! Some are genuinely struggling but lack of education and lack of willingness to change their practices is a major factor too, as is depression, inability to access funding and pure ignorance. It cant be all about cows and corn.

The difficulty I have is that 'the system' simply doesn't deliver financial support where it is most needed (setting aside for the moment the argument whether support should be provided at all.)  My biggest frustration is that the relative minnows are so passionately addicted to the crumbs which are brushed aside from the table of the big players that they, the ones who should be the most outraged by 'the system', are most often the most enthusiastic supporters and defenders of it - like heroine addicts getting an occasional free baggie from the dealer.

[eggsarascal]

6 minutes ago, ESS said:

Putting it like that makes you sound like you either have entitlement issues, are wrong in the head, or summat.

... And some folk understand sarcasm, others don't but that's the nature of Internet forums.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

4 hours ago, difflock said:

I wonder would "they" produce such helpful figures in respect of the top benefits claiming families, or would that be accused of impinging on their "human rights", so why are farming families fair game then?

Public money = public access to info.  So far as I'm aware, nobody is compelled to take it, but iffum you do, you play by the masters' rules.

 

I do agree however, that there should be a list of welfare recipients too.  

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

 

That as it may be, it's part of a wider agricultural economy, but as far as planning goes, it is the only rural economy and the only land use that qualifies for the existing planning exemptions. The fact that farms are totally dependent on subsidy to survive exemplifies the need for a broader approach towards supporting rural businesses. According to the figures in the Financial Times *, lowland and upland grazing farms receive more than 90% of their income from farm subsidy, with cereal crops not far behind. Given the pesticide and fertiliser usage of such enterprises, I would argue that they aren't the most environmentally friendly means of making a living, or indeed the most profitable.

 

 

 

* The link doesn't appear to open, though I was able to read it by googling for it. 

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

WWW.FT.COM

 

 

 

I only add this for context, but folks often aren't aware of the comprehensive suite of advantageous trading, tax and regulatory concessions in the ag sector.  I'll list a few of the top of my head:

 

Exemptions from planning regs

Exemptions from inheritance tax

Exemptions from Council tax (farm homes auto reduced by 1 band)

Rebated diesel (regularly misused for other business benefits such as haulage and recreation)

 

Add all of that into the direct financial subsidy and the whole package starts to look wholly unsustainable under the current model.

 

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

What you describe regarding a philanthropic land owner isn't a million miles away from what we'd like to do in the medium term building low cost housing in rural communities around us. High quality, well designed, eco friendly houses, built for key workers (teachers, emergency services, rural workers etc) built simply but smartly and brought to market below market rate. This would be partly on account of hopefully finding a land vendor with a philanthropic bent and partly by economising on the build by using modular systems. Such houses could be resold at any stage, but any increase in the asking price could only match overall national house price increases and should they choose to sell at full market rate, the excess profit would go directly to the community. It would be a covenant that would cover that. It's just an idea at this stage.

You don't need the philanthropic land donor for that J.

 

You need a government willing to release state owned land.

 

Easily done if the will were there. 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

I'm glad you're paying attention! ?

 

The wage bill is unusually high on this site as it's horrendously steep. Just checked the elevation finder and measured the distance and the slope is 125m from bottom to top and there is a height gain of 60m. 

 

Either way, the strongest argument that I have is that I want to make a productive contribution to the local rural economy but in order to continue developing the business, we need premises. I'm not asking for special treatment, rather to be considered on the same footing as a farm.

That WOULD be special treatment!

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

44 minutes ago, LeeGray said:

Eventually you’ll either stop arguing with planners and telling them the rules are bollocks and get on with it or give up and not get permission. 

 

I tell our kids there’s no point being right if everybody else thinks your wrong.

Bastard!  That's my life summed up in 12 words!  ??????

Edited August 29, 2019 by kevinjohnsonmbe

[LeeGray]

1 minute ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Bastard!  That my life summed up in 11 words!  ??????

Sorry Kev ?

[AHPP]

56 minutes ago, difflock said:

Ah, so you accept that farmers do not get special treatment then?

That is absolutely not what he said and you know it. You've done similar talking to me on this thread too.

[Conor Wright]

2 hours ago, difflock said:

Re economical viability and scale "J"

A local farmer has just put up a new chicken house, to supply organic eggs to the London market, the hens need access to 12 acres, he with much previous experience,i.e. 30 years running the first, now demolished chicken house.

He also bred pedigree bulls for a substantial number of years.

Based on his previous experience with the hens has said that he wants his young son, not yet 30 with a wife and 2 children, to give up a good government job.

So based on that, a finanically viable agricultural unit could be as little as say 13 acres.

I do not know the size of his farm, but probably surprisingly small, since he bought the land when his other brother got the home farm.

I was surprised at his clear idea that his son did not need the Govt job..

But Brains beats brawn most times.

A brother of mine has 7 acres and makes a good living off it. Organic salad leaves to supermarkets and direct to hotels and market stall holders. Churns out 250 kg in a good week. Polytunnels keep production going year round, although they usually stop for January as it's the only chance they have for a holiday.

No subsidies. No grants for the tunnels, we took down old mushroom houses and bought secondhand over a number of years.

Zero govt support meant he had to make it work. And he did.