Big J on radio 4..

[ESS]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

Yes, but there is no economic argument for having a dozen cows. They're pets, a luxury, something that you choose to do for your own personal reasons. Given that farming on a commercial scale is barely profitable, hobby farming certainly isn't, and given that preferential planning conditions are a form of economic support, I don't believe that preferential planning should be given for people in your situation. You're not running a business of the back of these dozen cows. 

 

Given that rural communities only prosper when they are economically self sustaining and successful, I would like to see planning law change to make it easier for businesses like mine to permanently establish themselves on land in the same way that a traditional farm does.

Someone could have a dozen pedigree cattle of the right bloodlines and be in a very strong position financially. 

You are making statements about something you know little about.

[Stubby]

13 minutes ago, ESS said:

Someone could have a dozen pedigree cattle of the right bloodlines and be in a very strong position financially. 

You are making statements about something you know little about.

Like Adam on C/File with his rare White Parks ?  He can't be short of a bob !

Edited August 29, 2019 by Stubby

[ESS]

3 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Like Adam on C/File with his rare Whit Parks ?  He can't be short of a bob !

Ha ha,sure hes not. If someone had the right line of Limosin, Belgian blue.Charollais, etc. the return would be attractive from a dozen head.A look at the pedigree sales results for somewhere like Carlisle mart would confirm this.

Semen sales alone from a high class bull can run into tens of thousands a year.

Far too many people make assumptions about farm subsidies without knowing the facts.

[difflock]

Re economical viability and scale "J"

A local farmer has just put up a new chicken house, to supply organic eggs to the London market, the hens need access to 12 acres, he with much previous experience,i.e. 30 years running the first, now demolished chicken house.

He also bred pedigree bulls for a substantial number of years.

Based on his previous experience with the hens has said that he wants his young son, not yet 30 with a wife and 2 children, to give up a good government job.

So based on that, a finanically viable agricultural unit could be as little as say 13 acres.

I do not know the size of his farm, but probably surprisingly small, since he bought the land when his other brother got the home farm.

I was surprised at his clear idea that his son did not need the Govt job..

But Brains beats brawn most times.

Edited August 29, 2019 by difflock

[LeeGray]

8 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

That as it may be, it's part of a wider agricultural economy, but as far as planning goes, it is the only rural economy and the only land use that qualifies for the existing planning exemptions. The fact that farms are totally dependent on subsidy to survive exemplifies the need for a broader approach towards supporting rural businesses. According to the figures in the Financial Times *, lowland and upland grazing farms receive more than 90% of their income from farm subsidy, with cereal crops not far behind. Given the pesticide and fertiliser usage of such enterprises, I would argue that they aren't the most environmentally friendly means of making a living, or indeed the most profitable.

 

 

 

* The link doesn't appear to open, though I was able to read it by googling for it. 

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

WWW.FT.COM

 

 

 

We farm a lowland if marginal grass farm, use no pesticides or artificial fertiliser and don’t rely on subsidy for our income. There’s plenty others out there doing exactly the same too, many of them in your neck of the woods. I’d suggest subscribing to ‘the land’ magazine and joining the landworkers alliance to educate yourself a bit more broadly before telling people how they should farm or not and what defines a hobby or not. 

[LeeGray]

Fair enough, my point would have to be if someone can move into a rural area and be granted planning permission on greenfield land because they have a £250,000 wage bill for there new business or there too tall for the local houses or they can’t afford to buy a big house with land and buildings or have £170,000 of machinery they’ve recently purchased or they don’t want to move kids schools then pretty much anyone could and would give it a go if they could get land for £5k/acre. 

 

Wether that’s good or bad I don’t know.

[difflock]

Ah, so you accept that farmers do not get special treatment then?

Edited August 29, 2019 by difflock

[LeeGray]

13 minutes ago, Big J said:

I'm glad you're paying attention! ?

 

The wage bill is unusually high on this site as it's horrendously steep. Just checked the elevation finder and measured the distance and the slope is 125m from bottom to top and there is a height gain of 60m. 

 

Either way, the strongest argument that I have is that I want to make a productive contribution to the local rural economy but in order to continue developing the business, we need premises. I'm not asking for special treatment, rather to be considered on the same footing as a farm.

You will be if you can demonstrate a need to live on site, as others have said look at the village statements and local planning guidelines, fulfil the requirements in the ways that you can with your business and your sorted. It will take years probably, cause plenty of stress and cost thousands but it is possible.

 

Arguing with planners is pissing in the wind, telling them you understand there situation and helping them justify your application to others is the way to go. Help them build a case for you by doing the legwork. The good ones are there to help  the local area, keep out the developers going under the radar and the others are just lazy. If it’s a lot of work for that type to go up against you stand a greater chance.

[ESS]

2 hours ago, eggsarascal said:

I'm going to move to the Staffordshire moorlands, insist that the lanes should be bashed through to create better access for the vehicles I've chosen to buy, that land should be sold off for less than its market value and I should be able to build what I want on said land to accommodate my family and the machinery I have.

Putting it like that makes you sound like you either have entitlement issues, are wrong in the head, or summat.

[LeeGray]

Eventually you’ll either stop arguing with planners and telling them the rules are bollocks and get on with it or give up and not get permission. 

 

I tell our kids there’s no point being right if everybody else thinks your wrong.