something for the sharper arbor!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Ok, what I was tyring to say is that in science, the growth of knowledge is cumulative, but human life as a whole is not a cumulative activity so what we gain is one generation can just as easily be lost in the next

 

 

It is said to take around (very rough figure) 100,000 years for a mental evolutionary change of mind, the hard wired part.

 

i.e for millions of years we have feared predation sharks for example, but we have only been around planes trains and automobiles for a very short time.

 

Whilst i am not suggesting we will fear these like spiders later on, it is an example of how long it takes for something to become a hard wired and acumulative instinct.

 

but knowledge can be and has been throughout the age of man lost.

 

The essence of what i think is important in this (theory) is that darwins theory is basicaly in essence a gradual loss of diversity not an expansion. If you become better than all the rest the cannot exist in the pressence of your superior edge. in inclusional theory all co exists adapts to fill voids like a flow form, a body of liqiud, filling areas not taken, the macro pores and micro pores of evolutionary space and time.

 

darwins theory has some grounds, for we will prove his by self elimination if we do not succed in living life the "inclusional way"

 

where we succeed we continuosly eliminate the void spaces and life is progressivley narrowed as we fill the volume.

 

The human race is acting on darwins self fullfilling prophecy, his theory is proving its downward spiral, inclusional theory explains diversity, the choice is yours.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Tony Croft aka hamadryad

[Dean Lofthouse]

Going off on one a little but what amazes me about knowledge and instinct etc is nature itself.

 

How does a bird know how to build a nest, not just how to build a nest but each species builds in a certain way, style and use of material.

 

How do certain species of whale, normally solitary, come together in a specific place from thousands of mile to mate

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

nature is indeed a magic, i am going to paste another article in here that you might enjoy dean

 

it is truly in the spirit of the theme of inclusional thinking

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

(extract) AGAINST THE CURRENT

The Paragon of Animals:

Reflections on the Human Perception of Intelligence

By Captain Paul Watson

 

"What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason!

How infinite in faculty! In form and moving how express and admirable!

In action how like an angel! In apprehension how like a god!

The beauty of the world! The paragon of animals!"

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

 

The human species may not be the paragon of animals as Hamlet so eloquently described to us. There is another species on this Earth perhaps more deserving of such lofty praise.

It is ironic that science, in its pursuit of knowledge, may soon lead us to understand that we are not what we believe or desire ourselves to be, that we are not the most knowledgeable life-form on the planet. Biological science is provoking us to shatter our image of human superiority. Confronted with new realities, we may be forced to change our perceptions. For the first time in our history, a small group of scientists stands on the threshold of communicating with a non-human intelligence. Probing the oceans instead of deep space, they are searching for an alternative terrestrial intelligence.

Astronomers devoted to SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) keep our collective inquisitive ears tuned for signs of sentience from space. At the same time, cetologists observe, document, and decipher evidence that points to a profound intelligence dwelling in the oceans. It is an intelligence that predates our own evolution as intelligent primates by millions of years. Furthermore, it is an intelligence that may prove to be far superior to us in terms of complex associative, linguistic, and survival abilities. Dr. John Ford's patient monitoring of the speech of orcas off British Columbia has revealed distinctive dialects between orca populations, so distinctive that it is possible to link a captive animal of unknown origin with its long-lost family in the wild. In the cold waters off Patagonia, Dr. Roger Payne thrilled the world with his recordings of the songs of the humpback whale. Behind the aesthetic value of whale music, Payne's research has revealed fascinating insights into the complex and highly sophisticated language of whales.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Its gone awfully quiet in here! bundle, tim, slippery, had enough?

[scotspine1]

Its gone awfully quiet in here! bundle, tim, slippery, had enough?

 

yep, especially after you said this -

 

The essence of what i think is important in this (theory) is that darwins theory is basicaly in essence a gradual loss of diversity not an expansion. If you become better than all the rest the cannot exist in the pressence of your superior edge. in inclusional theory all co exists adapts to fill voids like a flow form, a body of liqiud, filling areas not taken, the macro pores and micro pores of evolutionary space and time.

 

darwins theory has some grounds, for we will prove his by self elimination if we do not succed in living life the "inclusional way"

 

where we succeed we continuosly eliminate the void spaces and life is progressivley narrowed as we fill the volume.

 

The human race is acting on darwins self fullfilling prophecy, his theory is proving its downward spiral, inclusional theory explains diversity, the choice is yours.

 

Its just daft to assume Rayner's theory can save humankind from itself. Darwin showed us we're the same as other animals, what you and Rayner are proposing is that we go back to the time before Darwin, when everyone believed God was gonna save us, except this time you've replaced God with Rayner

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

yep, especially after you said this -

 

 

 

Its just daft to assume Rayner's theory can save humankind from itself. Darwin showed us we're the same as other animals, what you and Rayner are proposing is that we go back to the time before Darwin, when everyone believed God was gonna save us, except this time you've replaced God with Rayner

 

That is the most ridiculous thing ive heard said so far!

 

Hardcore scientist?

 

Listen, seems to me that darwin is a god to you, after all what your saying is that he cant be wrong, darwin was a man, a genius yes, but a man, a man with great insight and knowledge. however, all laws eventualy become supersceded by more refined laws thats life, we move on, progress, deeper understanding. darwin is one of my personal mega heros, the godfather of ecology and the theory of evolution. But it is a theory that is becoming not so clear, darwin suggests that all creatures are in an arms race aginst oneanother.

 

Rayner suggests that all species evolve together, in harmony, like water being poured filling each niche, if this was not so diversity could not continue it would devolve, that is nowhere on earth evident other than with the human race!

[scotspine1]

darwin suggests that all creatures are in an arms race aginst one another.

 

 

no, he suggested creatures were adapting to the ever-changing patterns of life on Earth, not necessarily becoming stronger or bigger, some creatures became small to survive as an example.

 

Rayner suggests that all species evolve together, in harmony, like water being poured filling each niche, if this was not so diversity could not continue it would devolve, that is nowhere on earth evident other than with the human race!

 

Nope, humans use what they know to meet their most urgent needs - even if the result is the ruination of the planet, that deosnt mean its devolving its just human nature. What Rayner is proposing is the idea you can change the way people behave by telling them what to believe

[skyhuck]

It is said to take around (very rough figure) 100,000 years for a mental evolutionary change of mind, the hard wired part.

 

i.e for millions of years we have feared predation sharks for example, but we have only been around planes trains and automobiles for a very short time.

 

.

 

No we ain't.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

no, he suggested creatures were adapting to the ever-changing patterns of life on Earth, not necessarily becoming stronger or bigger, some creatures became small to survive as an example.

 

 

 

Nope, humans use what they know to meet their most urgent needs - even if the result is the ruination of the planet, that deosnt mean its devolving its just human nature. What Rayner is proposing is the idea you can change the way people behave by telling them what to believe

 

mmmm you dont really believe that do you?

 

are you suggesting that this is a developing ocult, with Alan as the "god figure"! oooohhhh heritics them followers of the rayner!