Maybe we shouldn't all turn veggie

[Woodworks]

Just came across this TED talk and it was a real eye-opener. 

 

[Stere]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2014/aug/04/eat-more-meat-and-save-the-world-the-latest-implausible-farming-miracle

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/aug/19/grazing-livestock-climate-change-george-monbiot-allan-savory

 

im not sure who is right seems likely politics is clouding the science of both sides....

[Woodworks]

8 minutes ago, Stere said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2014/aug/04/eat-more-meat-and-save-the-world-the-latest-implausible-farming-miracle

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2014/aug/19/grazing-livestock-climate-change-george-monbiot-allan-savory

 

im not sure who is right seems likely politics is clouding the science of both sides....

Yes I know it contradicts whats recently in the press but I can't fault his logic. You couldn't grow crops on these lands from the looks of it so meat as long as it's not fed lots of extra feed is a good thing.

[Stere]

Im not questioning all grazing just if his dramatic claims about mob grazing/holistic grazing reversing deserts are true & backed up properly scientific studies.

 

Its something I studied yrs ago in uni and his ideas about desertification & stock densities go against the mainstream view.

[Woodworks]

28 minutes ago, Stere said:

Im not questioning all grazing just if his dramatic claims about mob grazing/holistic grazing reversing deserts are true & backed up properly scientific studies.

 

Its something I studied yrs ago in uni and his ideas about desertification & stock densities go against the mainstream view.

He admits it goes against traditional thinking. Would be nice to see some follow up of his work. Be fantastic if he is right though as things could be reversed quite quickly

 

[openspaceman]

23 minutes ago, Stere said:

Im not questioning all grazing just if his dramatic claims about mob grazing/holistic grazing reversing deserts are true & backed up properly scientific studies.

 

One of the things he said was that desertification does not occur in humid areas because bare earth is rapidly colonised. I did a bit of work on heathland restoration and this was often land that was abused manorial waste, had the atmosphere not been humid then I am sure it would have become desert from overgrazing. As it was it tended to heath and would only support few livestock. Also one of his clips was about  herding onto crop areas at night, and subsequently the land cropping better because of the fertility from droppings. Where I live there appears to be evidence of this as there is a marked contrast in fertility between the heath of the common and immediately adjacent farm fields. Latterly these have been limed and fertilised but in the day when the commons were grazed animals returned to the holding for milking and safety would have imported fertility from vegetation grazed on the common and deposited on the holding. Over many years this net export of fertility  would have become significant in removing available minerals on the common.

 

The other thing I would point out is that even if his techniques was useful and sustainable it doesn't  address the problem of feeding animals with arable produce which humans could live on.

[LeeGray]

We started proper mob grazing cattle about 7 years ago and have seen a huge improvement in grass species diversity and quantity. When we first bought the farm 12 years ago it had been undergrazed with just 12 ewes and was mainly rushes and poor grasses on heavy clay. We introduced cattle, pigs, more sheep and poultry into a rotational grazing system over time and the same area now supports 44 ewes and 10 cows and all the following stock. I’d say we’ve improved soil carbon but the tests are expensive so we’ve never measured. Anecdotally we’ve got more, diverse grass, better drainage and healthier stock on it 

[Khriss]

....plus they have more to talk about. K

[Big J]

I used to be vegan, from the age of 19 to about 27. My wife still is. With working in forestry, I couldn't reconcile the need to control species such as deer and squirrels with veganism. That was the main reason, but also I have a very fast metabolism and lose weight quickly. Being vegan nearly 10 years ago was tougher than now, and needing large, regular meals was a damned stress and gave me some anxiety about food. 

 

Anyway, I would defend the ecological benefits of veganism to the last. The sheer efficiency of it is amazing and the land area required to sustain a vegan population is much smaller than that of an omnivorous diet. We would all be much healthier too. These days, I'm just a massive hypocrite in this regard and eat relatively well, and relatively healthily, but not anywhere close to veggie or vegan.

 

I accept that there are areas where arrable farming isn't possible (half of Devon for instance, it's too sodding steep) but you wouldn't need these areas if all the productive, relatively flat land was put into production for human food as opposed to feed for animals for human food. Such areas could be rewilded or repurposed as solar farms or alternative methods of producing energy (short rotation biomass for example). 

 

Either way, I think it's very important we all considering reducing our animal product intake if possible, but I fully accept that the idealistic view of a vegan food production system doesn't fit that well into modern life for many.