What would you have done with this tree?

[felixthelogchopper]

5 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

Scaffold pole-tastic!

Sounds like the (slightly guilty) voice of experience.

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Badger, you were up the tree, we weren’t.
You’re experienced enough to know that when a tree doesn’t ‘move’ right it may be time for plan B.
MEWP sounds like a good call.
High value targets, gas bottles, LV lines. 
Not a good situation for a tree to shit itself under loading.
[emoji91][emoji298]️[emoji291][emoji378][emoji95]☄️

Cheers Mark. I know if the tree owner phoned me to look at it and I went out I’d have said MEWP straight away. But the fact I turned up to do it on the day I felt like I should at least give it a good go.

I’m not pissed off I walked away from it, and the end of the day I’m still here and I’ve got a family to support. Not worth the risk.

I know some people would have done it and if I was younger and still in my glory days I probably would have.

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Im not allowed to use tifors on account of doin 3 shear pins in an afternoon....[emoji17]
 

I’d say the powers that be have good reason to take those rights away from you. Mind you id blame the winch. I think this tree would have split on the bend and gone sideways before the winch gave up on me.

[MattyF]

Hi Matty. Yeah I didn’t like the winch fell idea at all not with that much force already in it.

The rig tag line idea was my favoured but the I’d have to get out on the main low branch as it was to close to the roof the rig in one go and I don’t like the idea of that much weight shifting on an already externally springy tree over a roof.

Another idea I tried was to winch the leaning tree at about 8foot up from the base to get it away from the roof a bit (the amount we were able to pull the tree up with the winch was a good 15ft across but if the winch snapped or I accidentally dropped a limb on it the result could have been terrible not to mention tensioned winches around the ground staff, not my cup of tea.

Thanks for the input.

Any thing close over roofs I’ll balance it and pull it up and over in smallish bits that a groundy can lift or go big and crank it up on the lowering device , still with a tag line to stop it spinning and gain a bit of control to guide it in to the DZ will help.
Kind of like this

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Very true, tree physics are hard to assess, even in person. I'm a dab hand with the winches though...not a lot I can't do with a small Tirfor, two chain lever hoists and a pile of slings and rigging, depending on the size of the tree, obviously.

I’m doing the CS32 at the end of next month and hopefully this will teach me a thing or two about winches. At the moment I just keep pulling that leaver and close my eyes thinking I’ve not had one snap yet, it’s got to be this one.?‍♂️

[carlos]

it sounds like the bounce and movement is the problem, so could you run two guy lines back to the trees behind and tension them a bit, this would stop some of the movment and help if you start rigging, of course its hard to see angles and distances from photos.

a simple zip line held by the groundie can shift small bits away from obstacles  without too much set up.

anyway hope you come up with a plan that works and your comfortable with.

 

[Haironyourchest]

1 hour ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

I’m doing the CS32 at the end of next month and hopefully this will teach me a thing or two about winches. At the moment I just keep pulling that leaver and close my eyes thinking I’ve not had one snap yet, it’s got to be this one.?‍♂️

I love leverage, it's so elegant and amazing. Got super nerded-out on the physics a few years ago, down to the construction and types of wire rope and chain, types of steel etc. There are some excellent and obscure YouTube channels on the subject. US Army Vehicle Recovery Field Manual is also really good, very well presented and easy to understand. I always get a thrill out of moving something incredibly heavy, slowly, with just my own strength and leverage. When it comes to trees, getting the appropriate angle of pull is crucial. A few feet up or down the stem can equate to 1000's of Newton's of force at the winch. When you hit that sweet spot and everything comes together, it's so satiffying. Now I'm going to have a cold shower...

[tree-fancier123]

Well I walked from a bay tree clump this week coz I was wobbling about on top of a 12ft tripod ladder with the ht131  fully out, hedgecutter on. They only wanted a metre off and it was 15ft wide. As above I said find someone with a platform. I felt a bit demoralised. Too much of a wimp to get it done. Still next tree will freeclimb with my chineeze 660 no muffs to regain my manliness feelings

[Guest]

On 24/01/2019 at 21:02, Thesnarlingbadger said:

 

I was recently asked by a landscaper if I could nip out and take down an ash for him, he would do it himself but has a knackered shoulder, he said it was half a days work and there were a few beaches hanging over a roof.

 

Now I haven’t really had time to look at the job but said I’d do it and invoice him once done. This part isn’t an issue.

 

I turned up to do the job and realised it was going to be a bit of a challenge, not an issue as I like a challenge and a good chance to set up a interesting rigging system.

 

Anyway the idea was to put a pulley block up in the trees behind and myself to cut stuff and swing it through with a tag line on the branches to pall them away from me. So I sent my other climber up another tree to put a block and rip in while I climbed up the Ash. After stripping all the ivy as I spiked up I got to the main branches and realised that there was a lot of spring in the tree. I didn’t have a good gut feeling as the whole top half of the tree was over the tiled roof. I then put and a cover in another tree to come down on to it but the angle was awkward and would put me right in the way of the rigging system, so that option was out.

 

I had a 3.5 tonne winch on me so I winched the tree so it was bolt upright and the plan was to fell it back in to the woods behind but there would have been so much tension half way up the trunk where the bend was there was too much risk. So that idea was scrapped.

 

I have left the job without doing it as I don’t want to put the roof through or risk my neck. I’ve only ever walked away from one job in the past and this was due to the fact it needed a MEWP and my previous employer didn’t get one in. The only way I can see of doing this job is also with a MEWP. But I am keen to see if anyone else has any ideas. I doubt I’ll be doing the job as I have suggested to the tree owner that he gets a company in who own a MEWP and have told him of one I know in the general area. He was happy that I was honest with him and was fine about the whole thing. Better safe than sorry as they say.

 

I hated not having the guts to do this tree as I am a competent climber and have always found a way around tricky situations as plenty who know me will know. However this job just didn’t sit right with me and something told me that even though this was a healthy Ash the tree wasn’t going to behave itself. Even though I feel pissed off with myself I am going to bed tonight without an insurance claim looming over me.

 

I’m really just seeing if anyone else hand any bright ideas on how to tackle it. Just as food for thought.

 

Pictures of the offender below....

 

 

 

That is a potential boobytrap. I removed a tree like that on an Thames water STW over a tank with negative buoyancy. I said to the guvanor “a crane would be ideal .” He ordered a big bugged in. We removed the tree and lay it on a big grassy area. Then they used it for a few more jobs with pumps etc. That’s a luxury though.

[Guest]

On 25/01/2019 at 19:32, carlos said:

it sounds like the bounce and movement is the problem, so could you run two guy lines back to the trees behind and tension them a bit, this would stop some of the movment and help if you start rigging, of course its hard to see angles and distances from photos.

a simple zip line held by the groundie can shift small bits away from obstacles  without too much set up.

anyway hope you come up with a plan that works and your comfortable with.

 

Bracing is a great idea. The more you eliminate the movement the better. Is there an higher anchor point to remote yourself to so your not physically attached to the subject tree itself ?