Increasing unseasoned timber sales discussion

[openspaceman]

6 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Guess you are using free wood from tree work? I am paying £60 a tonne delivered so it's nice not having that money tied up too long. 

Cashflow is one of the reasons kilns pay.

[openspaceman]

56 minutes ago, sandspider said:

 

 

But - as a firewood user with space to dry wood, trying to buy unseasoned or / and unprocessed logs early last year I had great difficulty getting a) any response at all or b) a reasonable discount for the amount of work required to process the stuff. I have a bit of kit, not much, but enjoy processing and splitting my own logs - I know it's a lot of work. Eventually I managed to get a processed, unseasoned load from a local chap in April or May, at the same cost as seasoned logs the year before!

You are in much the same position as I but I wouldn't expect a firewood merchant to let me have stock cheap, indeed it is the wrong person to ask, a firm that does tree work but doesn't sell logs is where you should be looking. I got short last summer but a chap on arbtalk let me fetch a few boot loads off one of his jobs.

56 minutes ago, sandspider said:

 

They didn't season too well as it happens (north facing log store and not much wind), but should be fine for next Winter.

Yes they'll get there eventually but through airflow is probably more important than direct sunlight

 

[benedmonds]

I understand there is a difference between some of you guys who do it for a living and those of us who do it to get rid of a byproduct but I really think some people take seasoning far to seriously... I will admit we have far more wood then we can process (we sent 300 tons of log wood for biomass this summer).

 

We only sell 50-60 bulk bags a year at £80-£90 delivered and a few sacks. For us leaving it seasoning for a few years is no problem and very little extra handling.. It is an extra that guys can do on the weekend or to fill in gaps in the tree work..

 

When we come back with a decent load of timber and there is space it gets tipped onto a pile for firewood. If that pile is full or it is conifer, willow, poplar and big stuff, it goes on another pile that goes for biomass.. The firewood sits outside exposed for in the rain and shine for a 2-3 years..  We generally don't process much till the end of summer or autumn then split it and load into bulk bags these are kept under cover for maybe a month or 2.. 

 

I find the seasoned wood drys super fast and is dry (although I have never checked with moisture meter).   I  had logs falling out of my log store at home this winter and they were left in the rain and soaked, but I left them inside for a couple of days they dried really fast and burned really well. I might be doing it wrong but I had the chimney swept for the first time in 5 years last year (we have a fire most nights in winter) and there was less than half a bucket of soot and sweep said I must be burning good firewood.

 

I also agree with what big J said about it being an expensive way to heat a house.. It would make far more sense for me to sell the logs I use and buy gas, but there is something special about a wood burner...

[felixthelogchopper]

36 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Guess you are using free wood from tree work? I am paying £60 a tonne delivered so it's nice not having that money tied up too long. 

Yes. I have a few people I work for who don't do logs so it works for both parties if I bring a trailer to jobs to clear timber. I get the wood and they lose a headache. If I'm working then I just charge my normal day rate or if I'm available on 'my' days then I will collect locally.

[benedmonds]

32 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Cashflow is one of the reasons kilns pay.

But it is just wrong.... Using energy to dry wood that will dry with no additional inputs just doesn't make sense for the environment..  It is surely only happening because of RHI payments.. Or cheap imports operating in an unsustainable short term manner.. 

[openspaceman]

28 minutes ago, benedmonds said:

But it is just wrong....

That's your opinion, I was just stating a benefit of kiln drying. AFAIAC Logs for firewwood are a luxury good and their carbon footprint is in the same category as a flight to marbella.

28 minutes ago, benedmonds said:

 

Using energy to dry wood that will dry with no additional inputs just doesn't make sense for the environment..  It is surely only happening because of RHI payments.. Or cheap imports operating in an unsustainable short term manner.. 

When we supplied a wood dryer there were no RHI payments and precious few kiln dried timber imports, in fact I suspect our customer kicked off the demand for the product.

 

As the designer of the concept I was disappointed  in the departure from the  original plan to  re use the heat from the process but the client had a view and that was to maximise profit and use of grant aid which were not compatible with my wishes. In terms of commercial success the clients were definitely right. They have a chinese view of capitalism and intellectual property.

[Gary Prentice]

4 hours ago, openspaceman said:

That's your opinion, I was just stating a benefit of kiln drying. AFAIAC Logs for firewwood are a luxury good and their carbon footprint is in the same category as a flight to marbella.

When we supplied a wood dryer there were no RHI payments and precious few kiln dried timber imports, in fact I suspect our customer kicked off the demand for the product.

 

As the designer of the concept I was disappointed  in the departure from the  original plan to  re use the heat from the process but the client had a view and that was to maximise profit and use of grant aid which were not compatible with my wishes. In terms of commercial success the clients were definitely right. They have a chinese view of capitalism and intellectual property.

Have you a link to more about all this, if you've written about it before on here?

[Arboricultured]

I have been following this tread with interest. What are people’s thoughts on the worth (£££) of arb arisings delivered in per ton then? Not biomass quality (conifer, Willow, pop, etc) but firewood quality (decent hardwood) ?

[Big J]

37 minutes ago, Arboricultured said:

I have been following this tread with interest. What are people’s thoughts on the worth (£££) of arb arisings delivered in per ton then? Not biomass quality (conifer, Willow, pop, etc) but firewood quality (decent hardwood) ?

A lot less than processor grade lengths. The processing time for rings is so much higher than cordwood. That's the killer, as well as the fact that it's hard for a lorry to handle, so delivery costs are higher. So to answer your question, probably £30-35 a tonne delivered in would seem reasonable.

[Rough Hewn]

In Brittany, when I sold logs.

The standard was winter felled hardwoods.

Extracted, cut and split in spring.

Sold from November onwards.

Half seasoned really.

But locals would put that in a barn and burn the load from the previous year.

You could buy in 1m lengths unseasoned for about €10 less a m3, but you'd have to buy an artic load.