Facebook video. Graphic accident

[Ratman]

Do you not feel sometimes that by fully “working to the letter of law” (or your company) makes you take the eye off the ball and create mistakes.
We’re hammered by H&S and RA and MS at work, and a lot of the time i feel it creates more hazards and near misses / unsafe acts, than it would if you were to just, ordinary stand back, whey up, carry out, common sense approach would do.

[tree-fancier123]

2 hours ago, Ratman said:

Do you not feel sometimes that by fully “working to the letter of law” (or your company) makes you take the eye off the ball and create mistakes.
We’re hammered by H&S and RA and MS at work, and a lot of the time i feel it creates more hazards and near misses / unsafe acts, than it would if you were to just, ordinary stand back, whey up, carry out, common sense approach would do.

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - all that legislation and box ticking is a whole lot better than what went before - vile businessmen with business values treating their workers as expendable.

[Ratman]

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - all that legislation and box ticking is a whole lot better than what went before - vile businessmen with business values treating their workers as expendable.

Not knocking it in the whole sense, just that they keep adding more and more legislation making it harder and harder to do the job. Some stand back and take stock of the situation is good and valid in my opinion for any task, being aware does save lives, but too much over thinking and worrying whether you’ve done it by the book, this way or that way..... that creates doubt and thats when mistakes and accidents occur.

[MattyF]

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - all that legislation and box ticking is a whole lot better than what went before - vile businessmen with business values treating their workers as expendable.

By all accounts as long as you leave a paper trail of bollocks you can treat your workers how you please.
I have seen AA contractors send there workers out with damaged winches , no one in that crew had a fmc for a PTO winch or any previous experience in using one so had no idea of forces or where to stand or carry out the operation, they where paid absolute peanuts for doing a whole dangerous job unqualified or with any experience to do so.. this is why accidents happen but because they probably had a paper trail and are paying the office admin more than there supposed skilled workers it’s ok if anything had gone tits up it all would of been good.
Come assessment day you can hire in some subbys to do it all for you anyway whilst keeping your staff at minimum wage.

[Jcarbor]

By all accounts as long as you leave a paper trail of bollocks you can treat your workers how you please.
I have seen AA contractors send there workers out with damaged winches , no one in that crew had a fmc for a PTO winch or any previous experience in using one so had no idea of forces or where to stand or carry out the operation, they where paid absolute peanuts for doing a whole dangerous job unqualified or with any experience to do so.. this is why accidents happen but because they probably had a paper trail and are paying the office admin more than there supposed skilled workers it’s ok if anything had gone tits up it all would of been good.
Come assessment day you can hire in some subbys to do it all for you anyway whilst keeping your staff at minimum wage.

Its got nowt to do with masses of paperwork on the job site,a proper written risk assessment will draw the attention of the group together on the details of the task,its one page of paper, it also provides proof to me as their employer that they’ve had a chance to talk about and hopefully understand whats expected of them on the day.
As for AA approval and using sub contractors to do your working assessment , yes we have heard of this happening I believe that is wrong. Personally none of our staff are payed minimum wages, even our arb diploma staff get payed for work experience days, without our committed hard working staff we wouldn’t exist, they mean an awful lot to us as does their safety and well-being. Seasons greetings to you.

[Jcarbor]

Not knocking it in the whole sense, just that they keep adding more and more legislation making it harder and harder to do the job. Some stand back and take stock of the situation is good and valid in my opinion for any task, being aware does save lives, but too much over thinking and worrying whether you’ve done it by the book, this way or that way..... that creates doubt and thats when mistakes and accidents occur.

Ratman, we should all stand back and take stock of the situation, but some don’t and carry out the work with no plan, now thats their choice. Having a document makes you all as a team join together on the same level and “sing from the same hymn book” as the saying goes. It also acts as written proof that the task was understood.

[MattyF]

I didn’t say it was masses ? It’s still the paper trail that would not hold the company accountable, that’s all that seems to matter .. I’m actually in awe of some one who has taken the time to become a contractor and if I had the inclination to do so would too... in the mean while I will skim over workshops and bulletins which they do a great job of putting out but...I feel there are a few things wrong as you do too in the route to being an approved contractor.
I could go on and write a massive essay on what I think is wrong with the industry on a whole but it would bore the hell out of every one and no one has it right all the time anyway....and I’m not having a go at you as you seem to have it right if you have happy staff and can provide a great service.

[Craig Johnson]

15 hours ago, Jcarbor said:

Hi craig, as a well respected and fellow yorkshire arborist whats your opinion on this unfortunate incident, you like me have many years of tree work experience behind us and an awful lot stories to tell.

it the owners of the companies fault for not instilling a safety first culture in the company especially on site. The guy holding the camera is the most at fault as he is questioning what the climber is doing yet does nothing, more to the fact no one on site has had the confidence to stop the job.

[Khriss]

15 hours ago, Jcarbor said:

Chris, I’m don’t know how long you’ve been in the trade...?... Season greetings to you.

I started before there was NPTC ( Scots forestry ) then the '87 Storm occurred an every idiot was about, smashing themselves up, so everything got tightened up after that. I think good practise n a check list is essential. Esp with young lads to set their minds.  Much of this ain't rocket science- sharp saws n sharp chipper blades n grease gun. Only aerial rigging is the real science in this game.

All the best. K

[Ratman]

Ratman, we should all stand back and take stock of the situation, but some don’t and carry out the work with no plan, now thats their choice. Having a document makes you all as a team join together on the same level and “sing from the same hymn book” as the saying goes. It also acts as written proof that the task was understood.

I Totally agree we should all stand back and look, and make a written note of the task (probably an invoice for you working in the public eye, which surely should include a job description to be carried out? In my line of work its a job card) i didnt suggest otherwise?!
I simply said my opinion on it is that for all the added extras they keep giving us, in ALL industries, it does make you take your eye off the ball. I’m not gona argue with you on it, its just MY opinion. And as MattyF says, a lot of it is unnecessary paperwork to justify and cover your ass and other peoples. BUT the positive of it, as you suggest, is at least there is a written record of your job happenings if there are any come backs.
I also disagree that filling in RA or MS makes you all “a team” and makes you “all sing from the same hymn sheet” and makes sure everyone has “understood” the job at hand. It only takes one noncompliant worker to create a severe incident / accident. Otherwise the words and meanings for accident / incident wouldnt exist in the english language and dictionary with the described meanings they have.

My conclusion is....

By using RA and MS you are more likely to LOWER the risk of a incident / accident but you WILL NOT prevent a accident by using them.

(Only my opinion of course... again ?)