Storing Timber on Agricultural Land

[monkeybusiness]

Hi - I know it’s been kind of covered in the past but does anyone know definitively the rules regarding the storage on agricultural land of unprocessed timber generated through forestry operations? 

The timber is stored for further forwarding/delivery to end user, no processing takes place. The agricultural land does not adjoin the forestry land from where the timber originates, it is brought in for resale to end users. This is in England.

Should there be change of use, and if so what to?!

Cheers!

[Stubby]

If no one complains soldier on .

[openspaceman]

58 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

Hi - I know it’s been kind of covered in the past but does anyone know definitively the rules regarding the storage on agricultural land of unprocessed timber generated through forestry operations? 

The timber is stored for further forwarding/delivery to end user, no processing takes place. The agricultural land does not adjoin the forestry land from where the timber originates, it is brought in for resale to end users. This is in England.

Should there be change of use, and if so what to?!

Cheers!

It's a change of use and subject to a planning application. How long do you intend to make use of the land in this way? At my last work the local council eventually complained and asked for planning permission but so far 8 years and counting (to 10)...

[monkeybusiness]

Thanks for the reply. What is it a change of use to do you know?

If it were an agricultural crop (spuds for example) would it still be change of use? 

[openspaceman]

27 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

Thanks for the reply. What is it a change of use to do you know?

If it were an agricultural crop (spuds for example) would it still be change of use? 

I am not a planning expert but in general it will be B8 Storage and distribution.  There are many reasons why the planners will fight an application.

[spuddog0507]

if the timber has come out of forestry works i dont see any problem as forestry is in the agricultur sector all forestry tractors hauling timber can run on agri tax (free of charge) and run on red diesel, now if you was hauling sand with tractor it would need general haulage tax (approx £400) and white diesel, so stock piling /storing timber out of forest works on agricultural land is agricultur related as growing trees is same as growing wheat/barley/oates its a cash crop, if it was domestic arb waste being stored on agricultural land it would be a very different story , hope this makes sense and helps you out,. 

[monkeybusiness]

5 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

if the timber has come out of forestry works i dont see any problem as forestry is in the agricultur sector all forestry tractors hauling timber can run on agri tax (free of charge) and run on red diesel, now if you was hauling sand with tractor it would need general haulage tax (approx £400) and white diesel, so stock piling /storing timber out of forest works on agricultural land is agricultur related as growing trees is same as growing wheat/barley/oates its a cash crop, if it was domestic arb waste being stored on agricultural land it would be a very different story , hope this makes sense and helps you out,. 

This is exactly my thought process too, but the enforcement officer appears to see it differently...

[Rough Hewn]

I had a similar problem years back.
Ten acres of arable land with quarter acre hard standing, £100 a month.
Farmer then explains local planning officer drives past to and from work, strictly arable. No wood, machinery, etc.
No horses or even chickens.
Strictly arable.
I nearly cried.
[emoji51]

[spuddog0507]

5 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

This is exactly my thought process too, but the enforcement officer appears to see it differently...

Oh my thoughts on your planing officer would be what a a---hole he would more than likley have a lot more important issues to deal with than yours . so if i am extracting timber out of a wood and stacking road side on agricultural land ,and lets say its a busy time for hauliers and i cant get it moved for 6  mths or more i have to put a planing application in for change of use of the land and then when timber has gone submit another planing application for change of use back to agricultural land, what o total load of bollox , no wounder the councils are in a mess and they do fuck all productive they just piss about with petty tupney issues, Oh sorry we have just got a new swing/play thing on our playing field, it has cost about 4k and now it seems its not fit for use ,what a fantastic desision that was by the council on our behalf

[openspaceman]

17 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

Oh my thoughts on your planing officer would be what a a---hole he would more than likley have a lot more important issues to deal with than yours . so if i am extracting timber out of a wood and stacking road side on agricultural land ,and lets say its a busy time for hauliers and i cant get it moved for 6  mths or more i have to put a planing application in for change of use of the land and then when timber has gone submit another planing application for change of use back to agricultural land,

 

I don't think that's the issue from the OP's later post.

 

In the past we occasionally extracted timber over adjacent land to stack it on a field with road access and never had issues (other than an inspection for setaside where the farmer had claimed a grant and it was held  our timber stack was making use of the land by DEFRA who wanted to claim money back).

 

In this case he appears to agglomerate parcels of timber from forestry operations and then subsequently sell them on on a permanent basis, this amounts to storage and distribution, or waste transfer. Most of us would simply do it, as Stubby suggested, on the grounds it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission and a lot cheaper too. Also you can stretch an appeal or retrospective application for a couple of years while you carry on. Once the planning officer gets involved, and it seems he has you need better advice than from me.

 

The way planning in this country works is that you are not breaking any law by doing something which you would get permission for if asked. Planning law is so complicated and was seen by some to be restricting economic growth that, rather than change the rules, the current government simply reduced the money available to planning departments, created a work overload so much got passed either by not being determined in time or simply not noticed. Plainly this is unfair on the more law abiding folk and means development is taking place in inappropriate places.