O Licence Exemption

[Craig.]

It would still depend on use.

6 minutes ago, Craig. said:

He said his trailer is 810kgs unladen

Motor vehicles and trailers

You’ll need a goods vehicle operator’s licence for a motor vehicle and trailer combination if:

• the motor vehicle and the trailer(s) are plated and the total of their gross plated weights is more than 3,500 kg
• the total unladen weight of the vehicle and trailer combination is more than 1,525 kg

You don’t need an operator’s licence if your trailer’s unladen weight is less than 1,020 kg and you only carry your own goods.

From the gov.uk link

 

[Ratman]

I still think the hire and reward scenario will play a part [emoji848] if if it was purely for your own use then it would be irrelevant. As you may be earning from it then you would probably fall under working time directive and that would come in to play if you were using a tacho for defo

[Justme]

43 minutes ago, Craig. said:

He said his trailer is 810kgs unladen

Motor vehicles and trailers

You’ll need a goods vehicle operator’s licence for a motor vehicle and trailer combination if:

• the motor vehicle and the trailer(s) are plated and the total of their gross plated weights is more than 3,500 kg
• the total unladen weight of the vehicle and trailer combination is more than 1,525 kg

You don’t need an operator’s licence if your trailer’s unladen weight is less than 1,020 kg and you only carry your own goods.

From the gov.uk link

Yes thats why I said what I did.

 

I love it when people quote the law at me that proves what i said.

[Craig.]

21 minutes ago, Justme said:

Yes thats why I said what I did.

 

I love it when people quote the law at me that proves what i said.

"When combined the new vehicle created is over 3500kg. But they exempt trailers under about 1000kg kerb weight . that rules most out any way"

Sorry for the confusion, I read what you wrote as most trailers would be ruled out of the exemption, implying his trailer and most others where over the 1020kg unladen weight.

Reading it again and knowing now we are both talking about the same thing to me it now reads,  that rules most out of operators licencing any way.

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Justme said:

Can you show me a 2000kg claus for that?

 

The only 2000kg rule is for car derived vans.

In fact I meant to write 2 tons, which is 2040kg but the legislation is

 

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

 

and in regulation 3 (2)

 

"

dual-purpose vehicle     

a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(i)

is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)

satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)

the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)

the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)

be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)

be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)

the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle."

 

If it is 4wd  (i) above applies and you need not satisfy (ii) and below

[Ratman]

Hell fire openspaceman, you need a new pen.... you got any ink left?...... ???[emoji106][emoji106]

[Justme]

2 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

In fact I meant to write 2 tons, which is 2040kg but the legislation is

 

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

 

and in regulation 3 (2)

 

"

dual-purpose vehicle     

a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(i)

is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(ii)

satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(a)

the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(b)

the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(i)

be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(ii)

be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and
(c)

the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle."

 

If it is 4wd  (i) above applies and you need not satisfy (ii) and below

 

Now try to find a definition of unladen weight & a maker that follows that definition as they all use their own version. Then you will find that the regs then add on any extra fixed equipment too.

Its a mess. Mass in service. unladen weight, kerb weight are all worked out differently.

 

Most dealers cant even tell you the kerb weight (remember the speed thread )

 

The V5c gives you mass in service.

 

Same as the second option of seats & load space.

Virtually every case I has seen try to use that exemption has failed.

 

Has anyone got an first hand experience of a successful case?

[openspaceman]

5 minutes ago, Ratman said:

Hell fire openspaceman, you need a new pen.... you got any ink left?...... ???

No just handy with Ctrl A, Ctrl C and Ctr V for the bits inside the quotes

 

At my last job we had a youngster pulled for no O licence ,amongst other things, with a trailer behind a transit (we had one but I took the Ifor triaxle trailer to the nearest weighbridge to prove it weighed under 1020, it was 960kg) and I was refused a class 4 test on my LR110 and had to pay for a class 7, next time I argued and had to get a weight ticket for the LR101 to get the class 4 test (it was about 1800kg with fluids so easily within weight).

[Ratman]

Bloody rules and regs drive you mad! Having a class 1 and working for a massive company that has everything in place makes it a whole lot simpler!
JonnyRFT hope all our input hasn’t blown your mind completely!!! And hope you get what you need to operate as you want, legally and safely that is.
It is good to get other peoples views / understandings on things, its one of the reasons i signed up to the arbtalk network. Huge respect to all you guys in this industry too, i’m learning allsorts that i would of normally taken for granted about trees and the such like. [emoji106]

[JonnyRFT]

11 minutes ago, Ratman said:

Bloody rules and regs drive you mad! Having a class 1 and working for a massive company that has everything in place makes it a whole lot simpler!
JonnyRFT hope all our input hasn’t blown your mind completely!!! And hope you get what you need to operate as you want, legally and safely that is.
It is good to get other peoples views / understandings on things, its one of the reasons i signed up to the arbtalk network. Huge respect to all you guys in this industry too, i’m learning allsorts that i would of normally taken for granted about trees and the such like.

I thought my head was going to explode reading through this and the VOSA documents. I can certainly see why it’s so confusing. I really appreciate the replies to this and thank you to everyone who has given their input.

 

The most logical way of thinking (in my case) is to operate without an O Licence due to all of my trailers unladen weights being under the threshold. The exemption rule is stated near the beginning of the document also making me believe that no further action is required. Hopefully that isn’t too naive to think. If I’m ever pulled over then I will quote from the exemption rule.