Free will or lack of.......

[Stubby]

He is having lunch in the restaurant  at the end of the universes and the answer is 42 I believe ........ 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Stubby

[skyhuck]

12 hours ago, WesD said:

According to those who believe in god though if he’d have stepped in he removes your free will. 

 

Gods gift to humanity is free will, didn’t it start with an iPhone I mean Apple?!

 

That’s not my argument btw as I’m the least religious person I know. 

No it was not a gift, it was a test, they were supposed to not eat on pain of death and remain ignorant of the difference between right and wrong. The devil told them it would open their eyes, so they ate. Yet some how Satan is the bad guy not god 

But that's only if you believe the book

 

[the village idiot]

Just something for the back burner, not wishing to divert the current conversation in any way, but just curious to know if anyone other than Brother Wes and Brother Mortimer Firewood has had a go at any Mindfulness practice? Be really interested to hear how you got on if you have.

[TIMON]

If God hadn’t put the tree in the garden as the one test of obedience, then surely Adam and Eve would just be organic robots? But then God must have foreseen it and already had a plan? Maybe he’s working on “stuff” that we aren’t privy to just yet. (Only if you believe the book, of course [emoji51])
I have often thought that taking psychedelics is very much like a modern kind of eating from that same “tree”. It certainly seems to produce the same results.

Excellent thread and excellent posts, btw.

[the village idiot]

13 minutes ago, TIMON said:

If God hadn’t put the tree in the garden as the one test of obedience, then surely Adam and Eve would just be organic robots? But then God must have foreseen it and already had a plan? Maybe he’s working on “stuff” that we aren’t privy to just yet. (Only if you believe the book, of course )
I have often thought that taking psychedelics is very much like a modern kind of eating from that same “tree”. It certainly seems to produce the same results.

Excellent thread and excellent posts, btw.

There was a theory doing the rounds a while back that Moses may have been hallucinating when he received the 10 commandments. They were saying that the 'burning bush' of Bible fame could well have been an Acacia, which is a Genus known to contain potent levels of DMT.

 

Arresting fact: Our brains naturally produce DMT so, in theory at least, the whole of the UK population should be detained for the posession of a controlled substance!

[TIMON]

There was a theory doing the rounds a while back that Moses may have been hallucinating when he received the 10 commandments. They were saying that the 'burning bush' of Bible fame could well have been an Acacia, which is a Genus known to contain potent levels of DMT.
 
Arresting fact: Our brains naturally produce DMT so, in theory at least, the whole of the UK population should be detained for the posession of a controlled substance![emoji23]

Interestingly enough, acacia trees have lots of thorns on them which symbolise the curse (or the fall, when death, sickness and all things unpleasant entered into God’s creation) , as before things went “pear shaped” there weren’t any thorns, weeds, pests etc...

On a lighter note... Imagine going up to a pre-fall Adam and asking him if he was “ok”? He wouldn’t understand the question as he wouldn’t know what not being ok was.
All he would have known was God’s perfect peace and unbroken communion with his creator.
But he would still have had free will.
Also, imagine looking at a newly created Adam and trying to guess his age... you would probably look at him and quite reasonably estimate his age at being around 30 years old. (A fully formed man in his prime) In actual fact he may have only been minutes old!
[emoji106]

[onetruth]

One dilemma that cost people their lives in the middle ages - did Adam have a belly button?

[WesD]

2 hours ago, skyhuck said:

No it was not a gift, it was a test, they were supposed to not eat on pain of death and remain ignorant of the difference between right and wrong. The devil told them it would open their eyes, so they ate. Yet some how Satan is the bad guy not god 

But that's only if you believe the book

 

Given that I’m not religious and these books are written by scores of people from different times I’m party to not believing them at all. They make people feel warm and fuzzy and serve a purpose so I have no problem with any religion but for me faith is something you find in people not a book. 

 

 

[the village idiot]

2 hours ago, onetruth said:

(1) Yes, but I'd probably simplify it to: nothing exists but consciousness.  You previously said that without consciousness, things are pointless.  I'd agree with that, too.  But consciousness is its own point - it's not there to give meaning to other things or fulfil some higher purpose.

(2) By eternal I mean permanent, unchanging, indivisible, not limited by time or space.

(3) I logged on last night to get a quote for some woodchip.  Don't apologise for encouraging me to talk about things that interest me - it is very rare to find an interested audience in my day-to-day life!

(4) I think I see what you mean, but they are only barriers if we become obsessed with detail.  Physicists struggle to see truth beyond physics, just as politicians struggle to see truth outside of politics.  But that isn't to say we shouldn't pursue the lines of thought we happen to enjoy, it's just better not to become a fundamentalist (in any sense of the word).  When I'm thirsty, I drink water, not H2O.

I'm with you for the most part on conciousness but am struggling with the fine print.

 

According to your view, conciousness cannot be an (off>on) emergent property of increasing brain complexity or an emergent property in any way?

 

If this is your view, how can you know this?

 

I just can't for the life of me see how there is any way to know that conciousness (as a universal phenomenon) is necessarily limited in relation to any of the properties in (2)?

[Gary Prentice]

4 hours ago, Stubby said:

No he hates me .

You do know that God is a woman?