Climbers death - kick back.

[Bolt]

Baffling indeed.

 

But be that as it may, 

 

If you go on a LANTRA 'CS39 equivalent'  training course, you may (if you wish) just use a rear handled saw.

 

For any aerial 'CS' assessment (LANTRA or NPTC) you may (if you wish) just use a rear handled saw.

 

Top handled saw use is only covered in a couple of theory questions.

[Khriss]

HTB - as you would go straight  into a tree company and be using top-handled saws up a tree - I would be pretty negligent to not assess you on using a top-handled saw up a tree , k

[Bolt]

2 minutes ago, htb said:

iirc NPTC test only required use of chainsaw, could be either rear or top handle. I did mine with a MS260

I did my cs39 with a Husqvarna 61, but that was a long time ago!

[htb]

5 minutes ago, Khriss said:

HTB - as you would go straight  into a tree company and be using top-handled saws up a tree - I would be pretty negligent to not assess you on using a top-handled saw up a tree , k

I agree, but just stating how it was on my test. We asked about advice on top handle use but got little if any pointers, other than only use 1 handed at extreme reach when you need the other to maintain position. Mind you that was 15 yrs ago

Edited November 16, 2017 by htb

[Khriss]

Well,  to you both - I would say that was a cop-out by the instructor , topping a trunk down , you 'should' go fr a rear handled saws for a few reasons - but as ever its down to what you have got ! Lightly pruning a cedar on its tips , I wldnt be carrying a MS026 up there K

[Bolt]

I think it a touch unfair to pin it on the instructor.

 

Our industry has dedicated training and assessment for leaf blowers (leaf blowers! !!?!! ffs) but no dedicated training or assessment for toppers.

 

Why do you think that is?

[Bolt]

This is in no way a personal dig, I just fear that the coroner missed a trick.

 

Up a tree work positioning is everything. 

 

With suitable techniques and work positioning, you could work one handed all day every day.  

 

What a shame we don't teach and educate the things that workers actually do EVERY day!

[skyhuck]

My heart felt condolences to all involved.

 

To suggest training is the problem is ,IMO, nonsense. Its not a one handed saw. We all know it should be used with both hands in all but the most extreme circumstances, so there needs to be no special training, it should be used just like a re-handled saw.

 

 BUT many of us chose to ignore the rules and take risks. When chogging down I often one hand a large saw, just with week I was one handing my 66 with 25" bar, I lift the ring with my left hand, while I finish the cut with my right. I've been doing this for well over a decade, am I skilful or just lucky? I one hand my 020 90% of the time, its no good or clever, its just how I work.

 

If I do get it wrong one day and pay the price it will be no ones fault but mine.

[Bolt]

1 hour ago, skyhuck said:

 

I one hand my 020 90% of the time, its no good or clever, its just how I work.

 

 

Maybe it IS good.

 

Maybe it IS clever.

 

Maybe you have developed a simple set of techniques that mean that the reason you don't 'get got' is not chance, or luck, but somethings called skill, technique and work positioning.

 

I have seen people cut-and-hold all day with such a superb technique that I can see there is minimal risk of kickback or laceration to them.

 

I have seen people using a topper two handed and they have scared the shyte out of me the whole time they have been up there.  I can't work out if they are going to cut themselves first or their rope first.  

 

One handed use (and, dare I say it, cut-and-hold)  CAN be done safely with skill, technique and work positioning but we pretend it doesn't happen and look the other way, whilst we busy ourselves developing hedge trimmer qualifications.

 

I respect (and expected) you highly valid view regarding training, but I think we are looking in the wrong direction currently.  Why not train stuff, if it CAN be done safely..... seems a little selfish of us not to.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Bolt

[Khriss]

I think , Bolt , its cos if you slip with a leaf blower it wont chop yr arm off ! God knows how many guys I have seen with slashed arms n hand cuts ( silkies are bad fr this too ! ) over the years , but it aint never an excuse as those poor blokes ended up with the unkindest cut of all K