Brexit ! what will this mean ? ( lets get a good thread going )

[skyhuck]

6 hours ago, WesD said:

Mate I’m quite shocked you voted leave. 

 

Question for you who who do you think is best in charge to get us out of the EU? Party wise not individually. 

 

Personally I know it wouldn’t and couldn’t of ever happened but when we voted leave and it won we should have had a 50/50 coalition lab/con running the country and running brexit to stop infighting between still remaining or leaving 1 vision for the future then 12 months after we officially left hold a general election. Eh well here’s to common sense. 

 

How longs it been now and where here still debating if we made the right choice instead of what we want to achieve out of the EU and how are we going to get it. 

I'm pretty sure that would not have worked. With a Lab/Con 50/50 coalition they could simply fudge it and keep us in without being punished at the ballot box.

 

The threat of an electoral backlash from the leavers is the only thing keeping our very slow progress  toward Brexit going.

[matelot]

9 hours ago, javelin10 said:

The whole concept of nations as we think of them today is barely 200 years old; it won't survive another 200 years, and maybe not half that as individual states realise that their 'sovereignty' is inadequate to meet the challenges of the future. Even looking ahead 20 years is pushing things when you're talking about specifics but nothing about the way the EU was heading up till last year worried me particularly, especially as we were there to slow down 'federalisation' to a reasonable pace. After 20 years, is not for us but for our children to decide.

Why are you so keen to throw away the idea of the "nation"? As a nation Britain is a good place to stay. We are wealthy, have a decent standard of living, have a functioning democracy. I just don't how joining a federal europe with dirt poor corrupt ex communist states improves our quality of life?

 

I read last week there are now 3,500 Roma gypsies in Glasgow. They must be costing the taxpayer at least £10k a year each and causing untold crime. So in a time of austerity and cutbacks the British taxpayer is paying £35 million a year to look after people that have nothing to do with the UK.

 

I'd rather have a British "nation" that looks after Brits...

[arbogrunt]

I think far too much emphasis is placed on immigration as a reason for leaving the EU. Yes, it is a factor (especially with the mandatory open borders planned for 2020). I think most who voted to leave are more concerned about being ruled by our own elected idiots than be ruled by someone elses appointed ones!.

Javelin, you are a true European, you voted for what you'd get if we'd stayed in...fair play mate!

As for which party would be best to negotiate exit with...I dont think it would make much difference. We are the second biggest benefactor to the Federal Euro-coffers after the Germans...of course they don't want to give us a fair deal!. When we leave, the rest of the EU will have to pay more in, those who pay nothing in at all (eastern European member states), will find themselves putting their hands in their pockets...those who are on the recieving end of the handouts, will be getting less to develop their somewhat backward Countries.

On top of the lack of money coming in, if the UK was given an easy ride, it would encourage other increasingly unwilling members to think about leaving themselves. Dont expect a golden handshake from Brussels...this is about damage limitation on both sides...not fairness.

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Divorce bill?

 

Wouldn't that be outstanding liabilities - value of assets?  Maybe in an organisation that can "do" adequate accounting procedure - that'll be the EU excluded then!

[javelin10]

11 hours ago, matelot said:

Why are you so keen to throw away the idea of the "nation"? As a nation Britain is a good place to stay. We are wealthy, have a decent standard of living, have a functioning democracy. I just don't how joining a federal europe with dirt poor corrupt ex communist states improves our quality of life?

 

I read last week there are now 3,500 Roma gypsies in Glasgow. They must be costing the taxpayer at least £10k a year each and causing untold crime. So in a time of austerity and cutbacks the British taxpayer is paying £35 million a year to look after people that have nothing to do with the UK.

 

I'd rather have a British "nation" that looks after Brits...

I wasn't 'throwing it away' it is getting obsolete all by itself. Up till now Britain has been exactly as you describe it. But those 'dirt poor ex communist states' weren't dirt poor before the Soviet Union took them over, and they won't be dirt poor much longer, Greece excepted. In one more generation they'll be markets for our goods and have functioning democracies themselves, maybe with a bit of leaning on from France and Germany. Outside the EU borders we are surrounded by countries that really are in trouble. 

 

I'd like a nation that looks after everyone who makes a contribution. Problem is, the UK only looks after those who own loads of property, and most of those aren't even Brits, not for tax purposes, anyway. I honestly don't know how so many people find it so easy to blame all our problems on minorities, or immigrants, or refugees when it's some of our own lot have been hoovering up all the wealth for the past 40 years. Must be the newspapers they read that are playing the oldest trick in the book; divide and conquer! Don't look at the fat cats, look at those foreigners - they are the cause of it all!

[WesD]

I dont understand why people seem to think if we are out of the EU we cant trade?!

Trading wont stop it will actually get better as not only will Europe want to deal with us (like I keep saying at its core its people selling to people not gov to gov) but we will actually be allowed to trade with the rest of the world. 

 

America only trade if it benefits the USA is this a bad model? They also aren’t part of the EU and they do ok with the rest of the world. 

[Richard 1234]

I wasn't 'throwing it away' it is getting obsolete all by itself. Up till now Britain has been exactly as you describe it. But those 'dirt poor ex communist states' weren't dirt poor before the Soviet Union took them over, and they won't be dirt poor much longer, Greece excepted. In one more generation they'll be markets for our goods and have functioning democracies themselves, maybe with a bit of leaning on from France and Germany. Outside the EU borders we are surrounded by countries that really are in trouble. 
 
I'd like a nation that looks after everyone who makes a contribution. Problem is, the UK only looks after those who own loads of property, and most of those aren't even Brits, not for tax purposes, anyway. I honestly don't know how so many people find it so easy to blame all our problems on minorities, or immigrants, or refugees when it's some of our own lot have been hoovering up all the wealth for the past 40 years. Must be the newspapers they read that are playing the oldest trick in the book; divide and conquer! Don't look at the fat cats, look at those foreigners - they are the cause of it all!

The so called “fat cats” have been around for a lot longer than 40 years.
Stop moaning about what others have got by whatever means and spend that time and energy getting some more for your family. I’m fairly sure these fat cats top one percent pay about 30% of total income tax between them.

[WesD]

2 hours ago, Richard 1234 said:

The so called “fat cats” have been around for a lot longer than 40 years.
Stop moaning about what others have got by whatever means and spend that time and energy getting some more for your family. I’m fairly sure these fat cats top one percent pay about 30% of total income tax between them.

Also how many salaries do they provide that both gets taxed and goes back into the economy when spent on living. 

[matelot]

13 hours ago, javelin10 said:

I wasn't 'throwing it away' it is getting obsolete all by itself. Up till now Britain has been exactly as you describe it. But those 'dirt poor ex communist states' weren't dirt poor before the Soviet Union took them over, and they won't be dirt poor much longer, Greece excepted. In one more generation they'll be markets for our goods and have functioning democracies themselves, maybe with a bit of leaning on from France and Germany. Outside the EU borders we are surrounded by countries that really are in trouble. 

 

I'd like a nation that looks after everyone who makes a contribution. Problem is, the UK only looks after those who own loads of property, and most of those aren't even Brits, not for tax purposes, anyway. I honestly don't know how so many people find it so easy to blame all our problems on minorities, or immigrants, or refugees when it's some of our own lot have been hoovering up all the wealth for the past 40 years. Must be the newspapers they read that are playing the oldest trick in the book; divide and conquer! Don't look at the fat cats, look at those foreigners - they are the cause of it all!

When did communism collapse in East Europe? The best part of thirty years ago... I think you'll find that large parts of East Europe have been "dirt poor" for centuries.

 

The UK only looks after people "with lots of property"? Really? There's millions of people in the UK that make little contribution to the UK but they can still go to Spain on holiday and get Sky telly, all thanks to the UK benefits system  

 

Virtually every problem the UK faces is made worse by migrants coming to the UK to help themselves to a bit of UK pie. I'd say the three biggest problems facing the UK are:

 

1. Fiscal, the Chancellor is not getting much tax in and he has to continually borrow. Do you think that is sustainable?

2. Lack of decent well paid jobs.

3. Pressure on public services like roads/ NHS/ schools etc.

 

I think many people that voted Brexit can see that EU open doors makes these problems worse.... But what do we get in return from the EU? Ohhh, that's right, we get to have our say on EU vacuum cleaner standards....

 

 

 

 

[javelin10]

18 hours ago, Richard 1234 said:

The so called “fat cats” have been around for a lot longer than 40 years.
Stop moaning about what others have got by whatever means and spend that time and energy getting some more for your family. I’m fairly sure these fat cats top one percent pay about 30% of total income tax between them.

Obviously they have but for the last 40 years their wealth has been running away so fast they don't even live in the same world as us (I assume none of you are on 250k/year?) So what if they pay 30% of the income tax? If they own 50% of the wealth then 30% isn't enough. Add to that the fact that Income tax is less than one third of treasury revenue, do you think they pay the same proportion of VAT, or Council tax, or fuel duty, or booze duty? The poorest households pay a higher proportion of their income in taxes than the richest; fact.

 

Maybe you think that's fair? And you need don't worry yourself about my family thanks; we're better off than most in the UK, which makes me wonder how most people manage.