Brexit ! what will this mean ? ( lets get a good thread going )

[skyhuck]

The main reason for the housing shortage is the way we live today.

 

These days everyone wants to live on their own. In the past unmarried siblings would live together. When couples spilt up they often went back home to mum and dad. Elderly parents lived with there children etc, etc.

 

Sure property is ridiculously expensive, but credit is cheap.

[WesD]

21 minutes ago, matelot said:

I think most people are against greenbelt being built on. You reduce immigration and you reduce the amount of greenbelt that is built on... On the news this morning Labour were saying we need so many new houses in the UK. Tbh, if we get a hard Brexit and EU migrants are forced to leave the UK we wouldn't need to build any more houses and the greenbelt will be saved....

 

Come on Wes, you seem one of the smarter people here, surely you can see that?

 

If you look around houses are being built by private or plc companies for profit via sale to the paying public, the amount of housing associations building for social housing is small fry. 

 

Last year I did a lot of days subbying on land clearance for housing to be built all on multiple sights, none where for social housing. 

 

As a side not my brexit argument is not immigration biased I find it hard to believe yours is yet your happy working away as an immigrant, smarts don’t come into it. 

[javelin10]

On 15/11/2017 at 17:56, WesD said:

Comparing an EU migrant to a UK citizen is like for like depending on salary surely however you chose to compare your migrant against a whole family kids and parents included without the use of a plural? That’s like bending facts to suit your argument is it not? I didn’t get a reply on yesterday’s post so I’m not too hopeful on one here either. 

Sorry I didn't reply the other day. I'd already done a lot of writing and I wanted to get some dinner. The whole benefit if EU citizens working here is that they tend not to bring their children or elderly relatives. This helps us plug the hole in our demographic, ie, larger numbers of children, huge numbers of retirees and smaller numbers of working age people in the middle trying to pay for them all. The old age crisis is the most serious social crisis we have at the moment, with care  and NHS costs spiralling up year on year. It absolutely dwarfs any extra 'burden' brought by so-called EU migrants 'clogging up our NHS', which is more utter brexit bollocks propagated by the newspapers.

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If however we use your logic then surely 1 EU migrant will not pay as much tax as the UK citizen his/her kids when they grow up plus the tax the folks already paid?!

Yes but they'll be spending a whole lot less tax because their children are paid for by taxpayers in their home country and they'll either go home before they get old or they'll settle and have English kids like my parents did; then they become no different from any UK family. Until then, they cost us less, and they pay more in.

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I have nothing against immigration on the whole however I think we should have a points/skills based criteria ala Australia so our nation truly benefits. 

 

Just a thought when immigrants come here to earn and leave their family’s at home be it parents or spouse and kids do you think the salary earned stays in the UK economy or do they send percentages of their salary home?

They send some home of course. That doesn't mean they still don't have  a net positive effect on the treasury coffers.

Edited November 16, 2017 by javelin10
spelling error

[Richard 1234]

They send some home of course. That doesn't mean they still don't have  a net positive effect on the treasury coffers.

All your doing is telling us all the pro remain stuff “propagated” by the pro remain media. It works both ways.
The truth is probably somewhere in between.

[javelin10]

21 hours ago, matelot said:

Brits have had "rights" for the last 1000 years... The Magna Carta was signed in 1215.... We don't need the EU to give us "rights". Anyway, is the EU not more interested in giving criminals and terrorists "rights"? How many terrorists have avoided deportation because of EU Human Rights legislation?

I said protect our rights so our own government can't take them away.

21 hours ago, matelot said:

 

Do you have any proof that EU migrants pay more tax than Brits? I'll be honest, if you cite anything by Professor Dustman I'll think you a bit of a fool

I don't know who Prof Dustman is but why don't you come up with some proof that they don't?

21 hours ago, matelot said:

 

Ohhh, so millions of EU migrants haven't had any effect on social housing? What planet do you live on? Do you really want the green belt built on to accommodate millions of EU migrants? Do you really hate the countryside that much?

 

Of course millions of EU migrants have lowered wages in the UK!!!! Even Lord Rose (chairman of Bremain) said leaving the EU would increase wages!!!

I've worked with dozens of EU Citizens and not one of them has social housing. They all work bloody hard and pay their own rent and get mortgages as soon as they can. They are here to work. I suspect you've been swallowing a steady diet of drivel from some right-wing tabloids for too many years which explains your almost hysterical paranoia.

 

People can't get social housing because we've been selling it off faster then we can build it for the last 40 years; another problem entirely of our own making. We've got tons of 'green belt' and could easily meet our housing needs without building more than a tiny bit of it. Last I heard this meant 1% or so.

 

Wages are low because there are no unions anymore, and because minimum wage employers like Sports Direct and all those other parasites know their staff are supported by Tax Credits, which may keep unemployment low, but does it by creating jobs of the lowest quality possible. Wage competition from EU workers may add a small effect to this in some sectors like construction, but it is our own policies that have overwhelmingly kept so many people poor for decades. Blaming it on EU 'migrants' is just another way the Tories use gullible people, like yourself, to distract attention away from the real problems.

[javelin10]

20 hours ago, WesD said:

I found Mr Barniers point very interesting the other day when we conceded that we’d allow immigrants already here a visa to stay pending criminal checks he said no they stay without criminal checks!

 

Who have we taken in and what have they to hide?

 

hmm 

We've been exporting our criminals to Southern Spain for years. It's a more than a bit paranoid to think that Mr Barnier has been secretly smuggling in criminals for the last 10 years, don't you think?

[javelin10]

7 hours ago, matelot said:

I think most people are against greenbelt being built on. You reduce immigration and you reduce the amount of greenbelt that is built on... On the news this morning Labour were saying we need so many new houses in the UK. Tbh, if we get a hard Brexit and EU migrants are forced to leave the UK we wouldn't need to build any more houses and the greenbelt will be saved....

 

Come on Wes, you seem one of the smarter people here, surely you can see that?

 

This is complete rubbish. Firstly, even those in charge of the brexit negotiations aren't going to ask to 'send them all home'. Even if we crash out with no deal they aren't going to 'send them home'. They only thing that will persuade them to leave is if a 'no deal' disaster causes such an economic downturn that they decide to go to Germany to work instead. I expect even that would make you happy though, am I wrong?

[eggsarascal]

7 minutes ago, javelin10 said:

We've been exporting our criminals to Southern Spain for years.

Could you explain this?

[javelin10]

11 minutes ago, Richard 1234 said:

All your doing is telling us all the pro remain stuff “propagated” by the pro remain media. It works both ways.
The truth is probably somewhere in between.

I just find the arguments 'propagated' by the pro-remain media far more persuasive than those 'propagated' by the pro-leave media. They seem more logical to me, they rely far less on prejudice for their persuasive power, and they reflect my own personal experiences better.

[javelin10]

3 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Could you explain this?

Costa del Crime? British gangsters and armed robbers on the South coast of Spain? It was more of a flippant remark then a serious argument. The Express, Standard, Mail, Sun etc love to splash the news when an EU citizen commits a crime here, as if us Brits aren't perfectly able to break the law ourselves.