Thinings value

[matelot]

There not looking for wide rides put into their wood want it looking natural but with the ability to walk in amongst it.

Don't worry mate I'm one of those guys that'll try a job and learn that way done it my whole career and it's got me pretty far.

 

I remember the first tree I ever cut down. I was 15 and cut down this spruce that was in a wood. I was so excited as I cut away with my bow saw as I expected the tree to fall over like in the movies. The saw eventually went right through the tree and the tree just stood there. It looked like the tree had grown magically up through the middle of my saw Obviously I never considered that the neighbouring trees would hold the tree up

 

If your client wants a natural looking wood that he can walk through perhaps you should be considering a fairly heavy thin and replanting with native trees?

 

In an ideal world I think you should clearfell the lot and plant with native trees. However if your customer wants to keep some trees perhaps you could clearfell the centre of the wood and leave the perimeter trees? The perimeter trees are likely to suffer windblow but they will still shelter any trees you plant.

 

PS

 

I've learned a fair amount on this thread. So thanks everyone for posting

[muldonach]

Spot on, not a commercial wood.

 

Although it is very clear that this is not a commercial wood the point remains that trying to remove a random selection of trees from a planted matrix will be both expensive and difficult. Talk of winching tushes of 20 poles through such a matrix is naieve - and thats after you get them on to the deck in the first place.

 

In our conifer woods whch were all originally FC planting there are regular missed rows (racks) which were missed so as to provide future access - are there no missed racks in the wood in question?

 

Assuming there is not then there is still a middle ground which will accommodate some of your clients wishes and greatly aid with getting timber to roadside - bend the extraction racks, get then cleared and then herringbone into them. You will need a skidder or forwarder - but you need that anyway

 

cheers

mac

[luftwaffe]

Although it is very clear that this is not a commercial wood the point remains that trying to remove a random selection of trees from a planted matrix will be both expensive and difficult. Talk of winching tushes of 20 poles through such a matrix is naieve - and thats after you get them on to the deck in the first place.

 

In our conifer woods whch were all originally FC planting there are regular missed rows (racks) which were missed so as to provide future access - are there no missed racks in the wood in question?

 

Assuming there is not then there is still a middle ground which will accommodate some of your clients wishes and greatly aid with getting timber to roadside - bend the extraction racks, get then cleared and then herringbone into them. You will need a skidder or forwarder - but you need that anyway

 

cheers

mac

I'm glad someone else knows what ' tushes ' mean, it's a word that is rarely used these days, since mechanised harvesting took over. Tushing out with the county a thing of the past!!

[Andymacp]

I know it'll be difficult and expensive for the customer but that's the way they want it done. I have given them the options and they want it done the way they've asked.

The site is around a house plot so any equipment has to come up the driveway.

I don't have a harvester or forwarder in the shed so have to use the kit I have. I cannot put a vehicle into the wood so any plan that involves that is out.

I'm not as green to not realise the trees will be tricky to extract.

The damaging the remaining stems concerns me though.

[openspaceman]

I'm glad someone else knows what ' tushes ' mean, it's a word that is rarely used these days, since mechanised harvesting took over. Tushing out with the county a thing of the past!!

 

We knew the term and would call the bunch of logs a tush but tended to say skidded out.

 

Long gone the days for me when I came blaring out of the woods with 8 half tonne larch trees, tip first behind the County, still got the machine though. In fact it was very versatile from second thinnings to big hardwoods but by 1984 I had succumbed to shortwood for softwood and fitted a grapple loader on the roof.

[openspaceman]

The damaging the remaining stems concerns me though.

 

Actually if you run the winch tractor perpendicular to the line of extraction you can steer the stems by moving back and forth.

 

I found 4 chokers per drum was about optimum, even though I would double choker two stems to one chain frequently (I tried rope chokers but the igland 4 tonne double drums snapped them too easily).

 

Back in the day when I did first thinnings the trees were about 20 years old, seldom bigger than 6" diameter or 12m long, so the only damage was turning out of the rack and that tree would be felled last.

 

Then the trees were at 5ft spacings and to make any money we had to cut a large selection of PSR and rustic poles, losing money on anything sent to pulp.

 

The larger trees which were not wolves were less good for PSR and because of the price size curve being what it was also not big enough to produce bars, so there was no real advantage in felling them, they would be more valuable in later thinnings or final crop.

 

Being idealistic then I reasoned that a geometric 1 line in 4 thinning would lose 25% of these trees with higher potential, so I would produce my rack at right angles to the planted lines, with the Holder and tongs I could skid stuff out without damaging the remaining trees as I cut and selected and formed my rack to avoid the better trees.

 

Elsewhere the FC had largely caved in and were taking 2 lines out of 6 to allow volvo 868 forwarders to work as their target was for volumes of industrial wood rather than concentrating increment on premium stems.

 

My efforts all came to nought as the plantations were bought by RSPB some years later and clearfelled to revert them to heathland.

 

I realise if you are on a steep lope there is little option but to go straight up and down..

[Stephen Blair]

Just hack trees down randomly, drag them out, when the customer gives the big thumbs up, call the Timber lorry and be happy with what they give you.

Sounds like a perfect job for a wee digger and grab

[Big J]

I know it'll be difficult and expensive for the customer but that's the way they want it done. I have given them the options and they want it done the way they've asked.

The site is around a house plot so any equipment has to come up the driveway.

I don't have a harvester or forwarder in the shed so have to use the kit I have. I cannot put a vehicle into the wood so any plan that involves that is out.

I'm not as green to not realise the trees will be tricky to extract.

The damaging the remaining stems concerns me though.

 

Regardless of how the customer wants to have the job done, commercial forestry practices should still inform the final process. In the same way that you wouldn't let your customer tell you how to dismantle a tree, I'd be careful to ensure that they understand that the reason best forestry practice exists is because it's tried and tested.

 

If you don't have the correct equipment for best extraction, I'd suggest that you either contract it in, buy it yourself, or pass the job onto someone who does. For minimal impact extraction, I'd suggest calling Mark Council (very local to you) with his Alstor 8x8 forwarder. This still represents a fairly expensive way to bring the timber to roadside (about £10 a tonne) but it's a lot more sensible that some of the options explored so far.

 

If you want a qualified forester specialising in continuous cover to give you a quick opinion as to what is best to do with the woodland, please get in touch with Ben Clinch at Moray Estates. He might have a free hour to meet you on site, give you his two pence, and he does really know his stuff.

 

I do honestly feel that if you do the job according the customers exact specification, with the equipment that you have and with the methods you've described, you'll give yourself an awful job that will never end, with an unhappy customer at the end and be doing softwood forestry professionals locally no favours in terms of general reputation.

[Stubby]

You say they ( the owner/customer ) want it to look like a natural wood but that is never going to happen if its a soft wood matrix . It will never look like a broad leaf random natural wood . Just a thought .

[Stephen Blair]

Call in JJ Baldwin!