Tree removal & heave advice

[alexsmith]

Hi

 

I would like some advice for the best approach to remove a tree from my garden.

 

We have recently moved into the house and during the sale we had a survey conducted. The survey recommended that we remove a silver birch tree from the garden and that we should do this gradually to reduce the chances of heave. Following this I spoke to a number of tree surgeons who all assured me that this practice is no longer used and that we should remove the tree in one go.

 

The house is a Victorian terrace and was built around 1900 in Bristol BS3. I believe parts of Bristol have clay soil and are therefore susceptible to subsidence. The area is known to have previously been used for mining and I am therefore slightly worried that removing the tree may cause heave.

 

The tree is a silver birch (I have attached some photos below). It is approximately the size of the two story house, with a trunk diameter of 90cm and is around 5m from the nearest property.

 

I am considering the following options:

1) Consulting a structural surveyor for an opinion in the likelihood of heave

2) Removing the tree gradually

3) Removing the tree in one go

 

I would be very grateful if anyone has any experience in this they could pass on.

 

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards

 

Alex

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Hi

 

 

 

I would like some advice for the best approach to remove a tree from my garden.

 

 

 

We have recently moved into the house and during the sale we had a survey conducted. The survey recommended that we remove a silver birch tree from the garden and that we should do this gradually to reduce the chances of heave. Following this I spoke to a number of tree surgeons who all assured me that this practice is no longer used and that we should remove the tree in one go.

 

 

 

The house is a Victorian terrace and was built around 1900 in Bristol BS3. I believe parts of Bristol have clay soil and are therefore susceptible to subsidence. The area is known to have previously been used for mining and I am therefore slightly worried that removing the tree may cause heave.

 

 

 

The tree is a silver birch (I have attached some photos below). It is approximately the size of the two story house, with a trunk diameter of 90cm and is around 5m from the nearest property.

 

 

 

I am considering the following options:

 

1)Consulting a structural surveyor for an opinion in the likelihood of heave

 

2)Removing the tree gradually

 

3)Removing the tree in one go

 

 

 

I would be very grateful if anyone has any experience in this they could pass on.

 

 

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Alex

 

 

As others have said, I can't see it being an issue if you did decide to remove it.

I've taken down plenty of trees in similar situations and never heard of an issue afterwards.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

[BishBashBosh]

Some insurance policies contain exclusions regarding tree proximity, and this may be the reason behind the surveyor's recommendation.

My current building's policy states no trees over 3 metres within 10m. Some insurers still use Cutler and Richardson's "Tree Roots and Buildings" (1989) which is widely regarded as very overcautious.

 

It's been my experience that surveyors look for anything to cover their arse/justify the cost... requires re-wiring/re-roofing are favourites!

[Ilnumero]

Option 4. = pour yourself a cup of tea and enjoy the view of your tree.

 

I would go with this, looks a fine specimen.

 

Enjoy it.

[Chris at eden]

Some insurance policies contain exclusions regarding tree proximity, and this may be the reason behind the surveyor's recommendation.

My current building's policy states no trees over 3 metres within 10m. Some insurers still use Cutler and Richardson's "Tree Roots and Buildings" (1989) which is widely regarded as very overcautious.

 

It's been my experience that surveyors look for anything to cover their arse/justify the cost... requires re-wiring/re-roofing are favourites!

 

I would say no trees over 3m within 10m is also over cautious. One of my insurance quotes a few years ago asked me if I had any trees over 15ft within 8m. Ignoring the fact they had used imperial and metric measurements within the same question (which in itself is bizarre) I asked why. The woman on the phone then went on to explain with complete confidence that this situation would almost certainly result in subsidence. I didn't go with them but it makes wonder the public believe.

[Gary Prentice]

An article I read, may have been by Oisin Kelly, also points out that C & R used data (I think from insurance claims) where subsidence had actually occurred.

 

If a Hawthorn within 3m of a house caused subsidence, it went into the data, regardless of the fact that there are probably tens of thousands, or more, growing at that distance without conflict.

 

The Relationship between Trees, Distance to Buildings and Subsidence Events on Shrinkable Clay Soil -Mercer, Reeves & O'Callohan, is worth a read.

[daltontrees]

An article I read, may have been by Oisin Kelly, also points out that C & R used data (I think from insurance claims) where subsidence had actually occurred.

 

If a Hawthorn within 3m of a house caused subsidence, it went into the data, regardless of the fact that there are probably tens of thousands, or more, growing at that distance without conflict.

 

The Relationship between Trees, Distance to Buildings and Subsidence Events on Shrinkable Clay Soil -Mercer, Reeves & O'Callohan, is worth a read.

 

I am working my way through that article. The abstract says the article's findings vindicate the Cutler and Richardson Kew root survey 26 years' previously.

 

I currently have two subsidence claim cases ongoing (rare to very rare in Scotland) and when looking at real situations it is immediately difficult to apply any conventional wisdom and just as difficult to overcome client concerns based on popular press and over-reatcions from lenders and insurers.

 

For these reasons, it is impossible to advise the OP objectively, since we don't know any of the circumstances. He seems to have disappeared anyway, perhaps he's too busy killing the tree to give us any foolow-up info?

[daltontrees]

I've never been able to get my head around this whole removing in stages either. I know its in one of the BRE guides but ultimately if you remove a tree on a pre-desiccated soil, the soil will recover to its original level. So therefore the movement will be the same ultimately just at a slower rate if removed in stages!!!

 

As rehydrating clay soil reaches and passes the 'Liquid Limit' it may be able to flow to some small extent (albeit very viscously) around foundations, which may provide very localised relief against heave. In theory anyway, there is a rationale for staged removal of vegetation to make rehydration and liquifaction of less than overconsolidated clays under foundations a gradual thing.

 

I can't see it making a jot of difference in overconsolidated situations.

[Mark Bolam]

How often do insurance companies identify 'inadequate foundations' as a cause of subsidence rather than 'bastard-killer-ninja-taking too much/too little water-25m from the house-tree' ?

[Arctostaphylos uva-ursi]

How often do insurance companies identify 'inadequate foundations' as a cause of subsidence rather than 'bastard-killer-ninja-taking too much/too little water-25m from the house-tree' ?

 

Ask yourself which of the following you think will cost them more: underpinning foundations or removing the odd tree? Therein lies the answer!

Might not be just, but the trees will almost always lose out.

[alexsmith]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all you advice, you have put my mind at ease.

 

I hadn't even considered the keeping the tree . We really like it, however it does create a lot of shade so we may look at just reducing the size a bit.

 

Zero chance of any negative implications from removing this tree IMO, and the same by leaving it and managing its size should you like it as a feature. We cover Bristol should you require any contracting works or further advice.

 

Thanks Tom - I will get in touch if we decide to do anything.

 

 

For these reasons, it is impossible to advise the OP objectively, since we don't know any of the circumstances. He seems to have disappeared anyway, perhaps he's too busy killing the tree to give us any foolow-up info?

 

 

Sorry daltontree - I didn't realise that so many people had responded! Happy to send over any further details if you think this will allow a more objective opinion.

 

Many thanks again for all your help everyone, it is very much appreciated