a couple of questions

[fenster]

hello all

 

i dont have my rigging ticket (cs41) am i covered if im up a tree rigging. if there is a climber on the ground who has this ticket ?

 

secondly in getting on a bit now and was thinking of taking the arb tech lvl2/3 in a few months

are there any good books i could read to give me a bit of a head start ?

 

thanks in advance fenster

[Andymacp]

Covered how ? Insurance wise I'd say no.

[fenster]

yea covered by insurance my boss dosnt want to put me through my ticket as he says im covered by the climber who has this. who is on the ground

[monkeybusiness]

Are you competent? Have you got rigging experience?

[fenster]

@ monkey business

 

I have done some rigging and would say I'm fairly competent

[markieg31]

It is fairly common practice I would say for climbers to rig with out a ticket

only seems to be people who are going for AA assessment that are pushed to get it.

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Arbtalk mobile app

[daltontrees]

You'd think htere'd be clear answers to this sort of question, but there aren't.

 

HSE says "FISA recommends that the minimum level of adequacy of training for chainsaw operations – including aerial tree work, pruning and dismantling – be confirmed by an

independent assessment, leading to recognised qualifications...

 

I am assuming for now that dismantling includes rigging. It doesn't always, but if it does the LOLER provisions are added to all the other chainsaw, working at heights, PPE etc. stuff. And LOER already alpplies to work positioning and equipment.

 

The grey area is this (as I see it). Althought HSE is clear that chainsaw use needs independent asessment an certification, HSe is not clear that rigging and dismantling needs these. But your employer MUST assess your competence, if not proficiency, nbefore lettng you do these things in his name. And if you aren't up to it you should eb getting training. The usual for trainees is that they can do rigging operations if they are also receiving training AND being adequately sdupervised. The idea is that you are safe while gainign and demonstar ting competence and are moving towards demonstaration of competence.

 

My view - boss on the ground with CS41 doesn't mean that you can rig without, unless you're being actively supervised and are progressing towards demonstrable competence.

 

Insurance won't be worth a tosser if the employer is flaunting basic requirements. But you won't know that until after the event.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Paul hasn't popped in yet! I recall a discussion about this, and I think it was at an AAAC workshop, and if my memory serves, the discussion concluded that a 41 ticket holder (or modern equivalent) should be at the active work site but not necessarily the person doing the sharp end work since the knots and lumps are fairly easily within the scope of a competent / qualified climber but WLLs, kit compatibility, dynamics etc should be left to the suitably qualified person to put the right kit together and generally oversee.

 

Remember a thread about "does 39 allow rigging" a while back too.

 

Seems an odd situation in one respect - if you've got someone with 41 on site, why have them loafing on the deck anyway?

[agrimog]

again this question rears its ugly head...certificates......and again everyone misses the critical wording.......RECOMENDS......any competent person can provide an assesment as to your capability, and as long as its on a record somewhere, this is sufficient, everyone assumes you must do a course, an assesment, and get a "ticket"....not true, and before someone comes along and tramps out puwer etc, everthing is a recomended, .....its called covering your ass, and official bodies are experts at it...deny everything,but create a paper trail to cover your ass, and pass the blame to someone else

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

As with most things, "all things" even, it's about being competent, in the true sense of the word, and proficient (a term from the W@H ICoP.) Clearly training, information and instruction are important and, if you follow PUWER requirements, so is a 'qualification' that reflects the particular task / skill area you're performing (L3 award in aerial tree rigging IS listed in the PUWER ACOP.)

 

The HSE view is that as rigging is a high risk activity training, and qualification, should be in place and, as such, the ARB Approved Contractor Scheme requires it. Insurers may also be keen to see it.

 

Hence enough 'compliance' reasons I would suggest to get the qualification in addition to being competent.

 

Cheers,

Paul