Potus ???

[Steven P]

1 hour ago, tree-fancier123 said:

I thought that if you're in the EU there are quotas for how many asylum seekers have to be acommodated, I doubt with all those coming across the med from Africa to Italy Greece and Spain that the UK would have been allowed to simply 'send them back to France' even if we'd stayed in.

Remember there has been a huge surge in migrants into the EU (and some onward to UK) in recent years. If the vote back in 2016 had been remain the UK would not be returning all illegal immigrants straight back to France -surely that would not have happened (purely because of the EU quota system?)

 

 

Here, as in the US there is a confusion between 'asylum seeker' and 'illegal immigrant', to some the 2 are the same thing. 

 

So before illegal immigrants crossing the channel in small boats could be sent straight back to France, since Brexit those agreements were void. There is no mechanism for them to be returned, once in the UK they are here, cannot be sent back. This made the UK more attractive.

 

Asylum seekers are different, we give them shelter under national and international laws until their claim is rejected (and they used to be able to be returned) or are given refuge status.

 

 

In both though, the UK and the US there is a great deal of blaming - the past or current administrations depends who you are - and a great deal of forgetting who was in power when and caused / failed to address problems previously.

 

 

Noting that Trumps rhetoric of expelling all illegal immigrants is hitting the buffers in the last few days now there is some realisation that they are not a massive population of criminals but the majority are in the US are actually working, earning, doing the shitty jobs that the rest don't want to do but are essential. Very similar situation to the UK, a minority are criminals (the same as in any population) but the rest just want to earn... and the only jobs available are the shitty essential ones no one else wants to do.

 

Take away curry anyone? Delivered at the 'gig economy' with real time wages far below minimum wage... don't see many UK graduates doing that but we all want a Saturday pizza watching the BBC

 

[Josey Wales]

1) Sime 42 is correct, there really needs to be a greater distinction, or even understanding of, the differences between legal and illegal immigration. It does muddy the discussion.

2) Dan has a point in that whilst we were still in the EU, under the Dublin Agreement, those who crossed the channel 'could' be returned to the first 'safe' country they arrived in. With Brexit we left this agreement and 'took back control' of our own borders, however the numbers returned previously would not appear to be massive. There is no current asylum policy or agreement between the UK and EU.

What can be said is that awareness of there being no legislation to return those attempting to cross the Channel, has probably contributed to more attempting it. The numbers since 2020, when we formally left the EU have risen sharply. 

3) Worth noting here that the 1951 Refugee Convention does not require a person to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. From what little i understand, UK case law would appear to support this.

4) Regarding tree-fancier 123's point, worth noting also that other European countries receive a far larger number, or quota, of asylum claims than we do, and always have.

5) All major European countries are seeing a rise in legal immigration, with a tripling of work permits this last decade granted to non - EEA nationals. The UK is no different, so in this case is nothing to do with being in or out of the EU. The reasons are many.

6) I offer the above merely as counters to some claims i see about immigration that do not measure up to scrutiny. I am not saying there is not a problem.

7) As this is the POTUS thread, i should just say that, though i'm no Chelsea fan, i did feel sorry for them celebrating their Club World Cup with the current POTUS being dragged off the stage by Infantino. Cole Palmer's face was a picture! Before there's a pile on, i would say this for any POTUS!

[tree-fancier123]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

Tories only realised Brexit impact on asylum ‘just before’ leaving EU, admits MP

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

Chris Philp says in leaked audio that Tories ‘ran some checks’ just prior to Brexit and realised ‘around half’...

ok so the article says about half, if we can ever extricate ourselves from ECHR it would be a step towards dealing not with half, but all of them.

[Dan]

Maybe 

[Doug Tait]

5 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

Now we have a water shortage in the UK and the small boat migrants aren't bringing their own water with them. 

 

Give it a month, we'll have widespread flooding and they'll step up with their equipment and expertise.

[Steven P]

So the story of the hour, Trumps friendship with Epstein rumbles on - thought it would be a 1 week wonder before Trump did something mental to shift the headlines, but the US press has a sniff of a good story....

 

From todays news:

"Trump once again defended Bondi on Tuesday, saying “she’s really done a very good job.”

Asked whether Bondi had told Trump that his name appeared in the files, Trump replied, “No, no.”

“She’s given us just a very quick briefing and in terms of the credibility of the different things that they’ve seen,” he said.

“And I would say that, you know, these files were made up by [former FBI Director James] Comey, they were made up by Obama, they were made up by the Biden, you know."

 

... the files (the ones that don't exist)... were fabricated by Comey, Obama and Biden... but the 3 of them kept very quiet about them after their creation, during the last 3 elections, during Trumps various court cases (particularly the rape ones), and missed the opportunity for an easy hit as Trump was attacking Biden and Obama.

 

I guess the plan is playing out, create the files, place them quietly in the FBI, sow the seeds that they are there into the MAGA fanbase, wait till Trump spouts all the conspiracy theories about them, brief the press. To make all this convincing they would have have to make this plan in the early 80's - all the photos of Trump with Epstein and so on as a background - just in case Trump ever wanted to follow a political path.

 

No, 'fabricated by Comey, Obama and Biden'... is another of the Orange Gods lies. He knows well what is there and what he is named in. He knows well that this would sink his credibility.

 

[GarethM]

18 minutes ago, Steven P said:

So the story of the hour, Trumps friendship with Epstein rumbles on - thought it would be a 1 week wonder before Trump did something mental to shift the headlines, but the US press has a sniff of a good story....

 

From todays news:

"Trump once again defended Bondi on Tuesday, saying “she’s really done a very good job.”

Asked whether Bondi had told Trump that his name appeared in the files, Trump replied, “No, no.”

“She’s given us just a very quick briefing and in terms of the credibility of the different things that they’ve seen,” he said.

“And I would say that, you know, these files were made up by [former FBI Director James] Comey, they were made up by Obama, they were made up by the Biden, you know."

 

... the files (the ones that don't exist)... were fabricated by Comey, Obama and Biden... but the 3 of them kept very quiet about them after their creation, during the last 3 elections, during Trumps various court cases (particularly the rape ones), and missed the opportunity for an easy hit as Trump was attacking Biden and Obama.

 

I guess the plan is playing out, create the files, place them quietly in the FBI, sow the seeds that they are there into the MAGA fanbase, wait till Trump spouts all the conspiracy theories about them, brief the press. To make all this convincing they would have have to make this plan in the early 80's - all the photos of Trump with Epstein and so on as a background - just in case Trump ever wanted to follow a political path.

 

No, 'fabricated by Comey, Obama and Biden'... is another of the Orange Gods lies. He knows well what is there and what he is named in. He knows well that this would sink his credibility.

 

F me you're worse than a broken karaoke machine.

 

So you're not saying the FBI are slow, yet we're surprisingly fast to show up with paperwork before he got elected for term 2.

 

Humm, very wishy-washy thought process there.

[Steven P]

No, nothing to do with the speed of the FBI. Do you read the same words that I type?

 

What I am saying is that Trump is trying to shift the blame for him being in the files... that don't exist... into a conspiracy that he thinks Obama, Comey and Biden sat down together to invent (probably needed to invent in the early 80's too).

 

As my first line says though, this story is in the news this week, today, about this threads headliner, Trump, and has relevance. He is not one to stand up to be counted, as shown here, he is one to shift the blame onto anyone else for everything. Just one more example of that.

Edited July 16 by Steven P

[GarethM]

13 minutes ago, Steven P said:

No, nothing to do with the speed of the FBI. Do you read the same words that I type?

 

What I am saying is that Trump is trying to shift the blame for him being in the files... that don't exist... into a conspiracy that he thinks Obama, Comey and Biden sat down together to invent (probably needed to invent in the early 80's too).

 

As my first line says though, this story is in the news this week, today, about this threads headliner, Trump, and has relevance. He is not one to stand up to be counted, as shown here, he is one to shift the blame onto anyone else for everything. Just one more example of that.

I read what you write and also what you infer.

 

Which is mostly word soup, I know you have a dislike for trump verging on the obsessive.

 

Knowing how the FBI and the judiciary hated trump, if there was anything credible it would be out.

 

Unless the Biden plan was to wait 50+ years like they wanted with JFK, then Donald said nope now.

[Steven P]

Ahh, yes, that must be true.