Potus ???

[Steven P]

1 hour ago, GarethM said:

Discourse and discussion is fine, it's just the constant oh he's a bad man from some sides that gets irritating, the world can't operate on a he without sin casts the first stone.

 

I was leaving this one for the evening but think we discussed this before and the conclusion was Trump is a bad man however the US public didn't have much choice in his presidency. Not everyone on this thread can see that and still idolise him with all his warts.

[Johnsond]

9 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

I was leaving this one for the evening but think we discussed this before and the conclusion was Trump is a bad man however the US public didn't have much choice in his presidency. Not everyone on this thread can see that and still idolise him with all his warts.

But you couldn’t leave it could you because wanting the last word is an absolute weakness you can’t overcome. 

[Mark J]

7 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

But you couldn’t leave it could you because wanting the last word is an absolute weakness you can’t overcome. 

 

[Johnsond]

4 hours ago, Mark J said:

 

“I was leaving this one for the evening but” 🤔😂

 

I never said I was leaving it Mark 🤷‍♂️
See below for confirmation 😂😂ATL

💪🫨

Edited Sunday at 00:07 by Johnsond

[Mesterh]

2 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

The Wall St Journal are not impressed with Trumps latest decisions

 

The Dumbest Trade War in History

Trump will impose 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico for no good reason.

President Trump will fire his first tariff salvo on Saturday against those notorious American adversaries . . . Mexico and Canada. They’ll get hit with a 25% border tax, while China, a real adversary, will endure 10%. This reminds us of the old Bernard Lewis joke that it’s risky to be America’s enemy but it can be fatal to be its friend.

Leaving China aside, Mr. Trump’s justification for this economic assault on the neighbors makes no sense. White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt says they’ve “enabled illegal drugs to pour into America.” But drugs have flowed into the U.S. for decades, and will continue to do so as long as Americans keep using them. Neither country can stop it.

Is he starting to draw an iron curtain, especially if he imposes the tariffs on the EU like he's threatened to do. Chyna 'bad' to get votes, Chyna not so bad compared to our allies when in power.

 

It will be an interesting next few months no matter what. 

 

 

[sime42]

3 hours ago, Big J said:

 

There is nothing wrong with having intelligent discourse.

 

Just because a significant proportion of the population is too stupid or too selfish to comprehend the consequences of voting for fascism, doesn't mean it shouldn't be called out for what it is.

 

I'll hold my hand up and say that I'm not a great believer in democracy, and that simply because I don't believe that the majority of the voting public is qualified to make such important decisions. 

 

In your case Gareth, I profoundly disagree with pretty much everything you say, but at least you have a strongly held opinion that has been researched. We're never going to agree and we'd always vote against each other, but that's your right and even if you get on my tits sometimes, I respect the fact that you're here discussing things.

 

So, so many people vote based on spurious nonsense, misinformation and tradition. Knowing that the electorate is so easily maleable, politicians focus on short termism, soundbites and populist rhetoric (on both sides).

Very little gets done for the greater good now, and next to nothing with a long term outlook. The political news cycle is far too short, and as such, real progress never happens.

 

 

 

The bit about not being a great believer in democracy. Are you just accepting of the fact that it's flawed but the best we can hope to achieve? If there is no viable alternative, then all we can do is try to improve the current system.

 

Taking the US cesspit as an example of worst practice, surely the first thing to do is take the money out of the whole process, as far as possible. On Question Time a couple of weeks ago Dale Vince suggested that all electoral campaigns should be state funded, (in response to a question about Musk trying to pump money into Farage). On the face of it, it sounds like a ludicrous idea, but when you stop and think about it, it might actually make some sense. Level the playing field up a bit. Otherwise those who already have money/fame/power are always going to have the advantage. Especially in the age of mass social media, run by the same kinds of people, intent on stoking Populism. Quite how such a system would work wasn't elaborated on, but it's got to be considered at least, along with the concept of degrowth economics.

 

 

[GarethM]

So in that prat Vince going to stop funding the labour party or was that just to make his divorce cheaper ?

[sime42]

4 hours ago, GarethM said:

 

If you want to really depress yourself about the stupidity of people, look at why IQ tests were invented and why its illegal for a USA citizen with an IQ below 83 to join the army.

 

Discourse and discussion is fine, it's just the constant oh he's a bad man from some sides that gets irritating, the world can't operate on a he without sin casts the first stone.

 

I've used the analogy before, it's always a choice between a douche and a turd sandwich.

 

Appreciating your cynical pragmatism and analogy, but it doesn't have to be a choice between a douch and a turd sandwich. Not claiming that it could be smoked salmon and caviar, but it could at least be an honest ham and mustard sarny. I'm sure there have been, are, and could be decent, honest politicians in the game. Those who are motivated at least in large part by good for the whole rather than just good for the self.

 

 

[GarethM]

We've argued this before, politics became these shades of grey around the time of tony.

 

Before tony, politicians generally worked their way through business or in the labour party up through the unions stooges.

 

Which gave them more a hard nosed reality of life, now most politicians college/uni/advisor so no real experience of say 3 jobs and studying etc.

 

Trump and co, are yes dirty but earned their business spurs, you can argue the morals but you get the idea.

 

Give him a chance, as our reality is depressing in the UK.

[sime42]

Shame it has to be post Blair, I was going to cite Thatcher and Kinnock as examples. I'd still say that May isn't/wasn't greatly motivated by fame or fortune. Or Corbyn, (a moot point perhaps). .