Potus ???

[tree-fancier123]

17 minutes ago, sime42 said:

Talking of getting swamped.

 

I'm amazed that we don't yet have a dedicated thread for immigration. It'd be well worth it I think; theres a few other general threads on here that are swamped by the volume of posts decrying immigration.

 

 

 

 

a dedicated thread for (illegal) immigration would be so toxic you'd need to put disposable gloves on to pick up your phone

[sime42]

You'd also need to have a header in bold typeface explaining in simple terms the difference between Legal and Illegal Immigration. It's a differential that's frequently missed. 

[BillQ]

2 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

dumb enough to not want your country swamped by the world's poor

 

Nice, dead catting !

[Dan]

1 hour ago, tree-fancier123 said:

how has that affected Iranians?

We used to send them straight back to France, but now we can't. 

[Steven P]

17 minutes ago, Dan said:

We used to send them straight back to France, but now we can't. 

 

 

...so why can't we do the same now?

 

 

(suspect biggly that the ones moaning the most about immigrants are the ones who also supported this change in the first place)

[tree-fancier123]

1 hour ago, BillQ said:

Nice, dead catting !

I wasn't disputing Trump's failure on Ukraine or your other points, but you made it sound as if his success at stemming the flow at the southern border is insignificant compared to his failures. I don't think so. Now we have a water shortage in the UK and the small boat migrants aren't bringing their own water with them. 

[tree-fancier123]

41 minutes ago, Dan said:

We used to send them straight back to France, but now we can't. 

I thought that if you're in the EU there are quotas for how many asylum seekers have to be accomodated, I doubt with all those coming across the med from Africa to Italy Greece and Spain that the UK would have been allowed to simply 'send them back to France' even if we'd stayed in.

Remember there has been a huge surge in migrants into the EU (and some onward to UK) in recent years. If the vote back in 2016 had been remain the UK would not be returning all illegal immigrants straight back to France -surely that would not have happened (purely because of the EU quota system?)

[Dan]

Tories only realised Brexit impact on asylum ‘just before’ leaving EU, admits MP

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

Chris Philp says in leaked audio that Tories ‘ran some checks’ just prior to Brexit and realised ‘around half’...

 

 

[Steven P]

1 hour ago, tree-fancier123 said:

I thought that if you're in the EU there are quotas for how many asylum seekers have to be acommodated, I doubt with all those coming across the med from Africa to Italy Greece and Spain that the UK would have been allowed to simply 'send them back to France' even if we'd stayed in.

Remember there has been a huge surge in migrants into the EU (and some onward to UK) in recent years. If the vote back in 2016 had been remain the UK would not be returning all illegal immigrants straight back to France -surely that would not have happened (purely because of the EU quota system?)

 

 

Here, as in the US there is a confusion between 'asylum seeker' and 'illegal immigrant', to some the 2 are the same thing. 

 

So before illegal immigrants crossing the channel in small boats could be sent straight back to France, since Brexit those agreements were void. There is no mechanism for them to be returned, once in the UK they are here, cannot be sent back. This made the UK more attractive.

 

Asylum seekers are different, we give them shelter under national and international laws until their claim is rejected (and they used to be able to be returned) or are given refuge status.

 

 

In both though, the UK and the US there is a great deal of blaming - the past or current administrations depends who you are - and a great deal of forgetting who was in power when and caused / failed to address problems previously.

 

 

Noting that Trumps rhetoric of expelling all illegal immigrants is hitting the buffers in the last few days now there is some realisation that they are not a massive population of criminals but the majority are in the US are actually working, earning, doing the shitty jobs that the rest don't want to do but are essential. Very similar situation to the UK, a minority are criminals (the same as in any population) but the rest just want to earn... and the only jobs available are the shitty essential ones no one else wants to do.

 

Take away curry anyone? Delivered at the 'gig economy' with real time wages far below minimum wage... don't see many UK graduates doing that but we all want a Saturday pizza watching the BBC

 

[Josey Wales]

1) Sime 42 is correct, there really needs to be a greater distinction, or even understanding of, the differences between legal and illegal immigration. It does muddy the discussion.

2) Dan has a point in that whilst we were still in the EU, under the Dublin Agreement, those who crossed the channel 'could' be returned to the first 'safe' country they arrived in. With Brexit we left this agreement and 'took back control' of our own borders, however the numbers returned previously would not appear to be massive. There is no current asylum policy or agreement between the UK and EU.

What can be said is that awareness of there being no legislation to return those attempting to cross the Channel, has probably contributed to more attempting it. The numbers since 2020, when we formally left the EU have risen sharply. 

3) Worth noting here that the 1951 Refugee Convention does not require a person to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. From what little i understand, UK case law would appear to support this.

4) Regarding tree-fancier 123's point, worth noting also that other European countries receive a far larger number, or quota, of asylum claims than we do, and always have.

5) All major European countries are seeing a rise in legal immigration, with a tripling of work permits this last decade granted to non - EEA nationals. The UK is no different, so in this case is nothing to do with being in or out of the EU. The reasons are many.

6) I offer the above merely as counters to some claims i see about immigration that do not measure up to scrutiny. I am not saying there is not a problem.

7) As this is the POTUS thread, i should just say that, though i'm no Chelsea fan, i did feel sorry for them celebrating their Club World Cup with the current POTUS being dragged off the stage by Infantino. Cole Palmer's face was a picture! Before there's a pile on, i would say this for any POTUS!